Tango codes of conduct

[David Bailey]

Moved from the discrimination thread - David

DB commented that in the archane world of Tango, women still sit out all night waiting to be asked.

I did? I can't remember what we were arguing about now - I'm sure it was important at the time though.

To expand on the "planchadora" thing - Tango's not (I think) a particularly snooty dance scene. You get the same attitudes in all dances in my experience.

But Tango does categorise things more often, and codify them - whereas in other scenes, the cultural aspects are more informal (but probably no different).

So, for example, you have the "codigos", or "codes", for asking someone to dance (and for accepting / rejecting the offer) in a non-verbal and non-humiliating way.

Like I said, all partner dance scenes have this problem - why do you think dance cards were invented for ballroom dancing? - but AT's more formalised or documented.

Unbelievable. This is the 21st century is it not?

Nah - If you want to see some really nasty behaviour, try a Central London salsa club on a Saturday night.

[Astro]

So, for example, you have the "codigos", or "codes", for asking someone to dance (and for accepting / rejecting the offer) in a non-verbal and non-humiliating way.

What are they and would they work at MJ, whilst still keeping the female and male askee option? Or is it insider knowledge?

Like I said, all partner dance scenes have this problem - why do you think dance cards were invented for ballroom dancing? - but AT's more formalised or documented.

Do they still use dance cards at ballroom dancing? If so, do they hang from the wrist? The old ones are collectors items now.

Nah - If you want to see some really nasty behaviour, try a Central London salsa club on a Saturday night.

I went to Salsa once in Hackney and it was very friendly. The venue is boarded up now though.
I suppose the West End would be more cut throat.

[David Bailey]

What are they and would they work at MJ, whilst still keeping the female and male askee option?

Probably not. In fact, I'm not even convinced they work in AT in the UK...

Or is it insider knowledge?

Hardly - here's some links:
http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=27211
http://sallycat.wordpress.com/2008/01/0 ... res-cross/
http://jantango.wordpress.com/category/codigos/

[stewart38]

DB commented that in the archane world of Tango, women still sit out all night waiting to be asked.

Unbelievable. This is the 21st century is it not?

You would think they would at least get you a drink while they 'wait their turn', but hardly ever

[Astro]

Probably not. In fact, I'm not even convinced they work in AT in the UK...


Hardly - here's some links:
http://www.dance-forums.com/showthread.php?t=27211
http://sallycat.wordpress.com/2008/01/0 ... res-cross/
http://jantango.wordpress.com/category/codigos/

I've read a few, but still in the dark about what a cabeceo is.

Interesting codigo - the "thankyou" or should they say gracias?

If the male or female dancer is not happy they can curtail a dance by saying "thankyou"
That would be a nice get out clause for a female stuck with a groper.

[David Bailey]

I've read a few, but still in the dark about what a cabeceo is.

It's the non-verbal "You dancin'? You askin'? I'm askin'. I'm dancin'" exchange, all done with the eyes across a crowded room. Apparently.

[Gav]

If the male or female dancer is not happy they can curtail a dance by saying "thankyou"
That would be a nice get out clause for a female stuck with a groper.

Really? I would have thought that would just encourage them. As in "she always says thank you when I cop a feel as we dance", she must like it.

[David Bailey]

Really? I would have thought that would just encourage them. As in "she always says thank you when I cop a feel as we dance", she must like it.

It's more like "Thank you and goodbye" - the bit in bold is silent.

Good tip for MJ-ers: don't say "Thank you" after the first dance

[CJ]

Good tip for MJ-ers: don't say "Thank you" after the first dance

Some advice is better late than never...

[philsmove]

Women can and do ask men to dance

Jivecat asked me for a dance at a recent Milonga, although we had in fact never met before, she was the third lady to ask me that day

She also, very polity, reminded me tango is danced in Tandas

[jivecat]

Women can and do ask men to dance

Jivecat asked me for a dance at a recent Milonga, although we had in fact never met before, she was the third lady to ask me that day

She also, very polity, reminded me tango is danced in Tandas

I did? But they don't have tandas at the Mango, do they?

I asked you because I knew you came from an MJ background, therefore would be able to cope without cringing embarrassment at being importuned by a female to dance - which is a response I have received in some quarters! I know my place now - sitting on the benches chatting to the other tangueras, which luckily, I find very rewarding.

Using the cabeceo is the most technically difficult part of tango I have so far encountered. I can see that it would work well as a means of picking and choosing partners so that you get to look good on the dance floor and only have dances you enjoy whilst saving face all round. Trouble is, I am completely rubbish at it - it only works with people I know really well and would be quite happy to ask anyway because I know they wouldn't turn me down. But in some quarters in UK it seems to be a major way of getting dances.

[Lory]

I found this.. http://tangoinhereyes.blogspot.com/2007 ... beceo.html

Wow, it appears I've been doing it all wrong

[jivecat]

Wow, it appears I've been doing it all wrong

Too right! I think I've been missing out the staring intently at the intended prey bit. It's just so not British, is it? The tip about having a reserve or two as back-up was a good one, though. Shame they didn't say exactly how many seconds of intense staring had to be done before falling back on Choice B. Or whether blinking invalidates the process. Latest tango worry - will my eyeballs dry out before Sr. Dios de Bailar gets to ground zero, 53.78cm in front of me?

Yes, indeedy, I'll just take a stopwatch, notebook and tape measure along to my next milonga and I'll be saying goodbye to the plancha forever.

So the wisdom that says everyone sees everything in a milonga is especially applicable here. The milongueros have spent so many years watching each other, that they seem almost telepathic.

If this is true, then the main justification for the cabeceo - that we can all hide our humiliating knock-backs, and the fact that we've dished them out - seems to be taken away.

[Lory]

Latest tango worry - will my eyeballs dry out before Sr. Dios de Bailar gets to ground zero, 53.78cm in front of me?

[David Bailey]

If this is true, then the main justification for the cabeceo - that we can all hide our humiliating knock-backs, and the fact that we've dished them out - seems to be taken away.

My personal view is that the cabaceo doesn't exist in the UK, at least not at most venues and in the way it's traditionally described.

I reckon if you use a similar etiquette to ask a woman to dance in AT as you do within MJ, you'll be fine.

[jivecat]

My personal view is that the cabaceo doesn't exist in the UK, at least not at most venues and in the way it's traditionally described.

I reckon if you use a similar etiquette to ask a woman to dance in AT as you do within MJ, you'll be fine.

I have known some men use it and advocate it as a good thing. But yes, it's probably not used that much. The tango events I have been to are generally small and intimate where people know each other anyway, so dance invitations often spring from general socialising, and people know who will happily dance with them - or not.

However, if women use the same etiquette to ask men to dance as they would at an MJ event, then I do not think they will necessarily be fine - it might be OK, but they might easily get a turndown, a brush off or a very frosty charity dance. Sure, this happens in MJ but there seems to me that there is no question that the MJ scene is more relaxed and open, especially in big events where most people are strangers to one another.

[philsmove]

...However, if women use the same etiquette to ask men to dance as they would at an MJ event, then I do not think they will necessarily be fine - it might be OK, but they might easily get a turndown, a brush off or a very frosty charity dance. .

This does not seem to happen in Bristol may be because so many of us come from MJ

I think men maybe reluctant to ask strangers for a dance because of the three dance etiquette
In MJ even if you ask or get asked by someone you don’t get on with, you are only with them for one 3 minuet dance (I am very carful who I ask, if sweet home Chicago is played)

[mshedgehog]

My personal view is that the cabaceo doesn't exist in the UK, at least not at most venues and in the way it's traditionally described.

It is actually used quite a bit, but I only use it with people I know, or people I can confidently predict will use it (e.g. visitors who do not speak English well, or locals in a place where I do not speak the language well).

I have difficulty making it work with anyone I don't feel very confident asking, because I get embarrassed before I can hold the gaze for long enough, and that sabotages it completely.

[Astro]

Good tip for MJ-ers: don't say "Thank you" after the first dance

So does the Codigo happen mid dance or at the end of the first or second of the 3 dances in the Tanda?

I have difficulty making it work with anyone I don't feel very confident asking, because I get embarrassed before I can hold the gaze for long enough, and that sabotages it completely.

What about Argentinians with squints?

[philsmove]

Tango Dictionary

Cabeceo (see also Codigos)
From la cabeza (f) -- head: Traditional technique for selecting dance partners from a distance at the milongas in Buenos Aires by using eye contact and head movements.
The cabeceo makes the invitation to dance less stressful as it allows the invited person to decline discretely.
Non-verbal cues are frequently used. So, as you are getting ready to ask someone to dance, try to catch their eye, smile and nod. You might raise your eyebrows in an inquiring expression or directing a nod towards the dance floor. Observe their body language. For instance, if you make eye-contact and the other person quickly turns away, pretends not to see you, or busies themselves in some way, it means they do not want to dance. On the other hand, if your potential partner returns your eye-contact with a smile and/or a nod, you are encouraged to invite them verbally (ie. "would you like to dance?").
When inviting a person who is in the presence of their significant other, it is courteous to ask their significant other for permission. Be friendly but not flirtatious and avoid dance moves that are sexually suggestive. Avoid monopolizing anyone’s partner with multiple tandas (see Tanda in The Tango Dictionary).

Tanda
A set of dance music, usually three to five songs, of the same dance in similar style, if not by the same orquesta. The tandas are separated by a brief interlude of non tango music called a “cortina”, or curtain, during which couples select each other. It is customary to dance the entire tanda with the same partner unless the man is rude or very disappointing as a dance partner, in which case the lady may say gracias (thank you) and leave. See Codigos, Cortina