Moved from the Cerocport May 09 thread
Lory xx
You have just hit on my pet hate and especially when someone gives you the excuse of being too tired , need a drink but only until someone much more gorgeous comes along and they are suddenly revitalised, it’s just plain rude. I try never to say no to a dance but if I do I will always go and find the person for the next dance. It’s 3 minutes out of your life possibly 5 in the blues room and it can make all the difference to someone’s confidence.
Maybe we should all move to Scotland if it does not happen there because I’m afraid I know it goes on in London and I agree with you about how good the dancers are because in my experience the really good dancers don't behave like this.
I must say everyone from all over was really friendly and I did not get one refusal the whole weekend, which all helps to make it a great weekend
Last edited by Lory; 3rd-June-2009 at 01:35 PM.
The thing is Rob, they are decent enough dancers but not as has been said really good. Their behaviour is awful simply because of the effect that they have on some people. I'm thick enough skinned but I know from others that being refused by someone who then dances with someone else within the time the same track is being played can ruin the night/weekend for the 'asker'. The 'reason' given be it on a break or whatever is just $hit.
I suppose as Lory says there are arses everywhere but is it really necessary to hurt people so much.
I'm just not aware of this problem being so common in Scotland - perhaps that's why Scottish dancers are made to feel so welcome when they come down south.
As someone who turned down at least 5 dances (though I swear Mr Pants only asked me cos he saw I had my shoes off), I managed to get back to them all bar 2: said Mr Pants and another girl who asked me at the same time... And irrespective of how young and attractive she was (and she was), I just couldn't get my shoes back on... However, I didn't manage to find either person at the right time, despite lookng. Those failures aside, I managed to come back to everyone else I turned down.
Sometimes a refusal is because U are just too tired, out of breath or U've been asked to dance a truly horrendously crap song. I try to refuse as politely as possible, with good reason, and go seek out the person as soon as possible thereafter.
Asking someone to dance is still a brave thing to do, no matter how blaze some of us are about it. Even as an occasional refuser, I would encourage respect, manners and a littler empathy for anyone who asks U to dance.
As an aside... Do people really turn other dancers down on aesthetics?!?!!? Man, I thought we'd gotten past this...
Another aside... When one goes back and finds someone else, it's states a message of intent. This isn't a charity dance, or an obligation. I have come to U becasue I am ready to dance and choose to do so with you to this song. If I did dance when asked, being tired or out of puff, the dance I give my partner would be less... after a quick breather and a drink, the dance I give my partner would be better... That feels important to me. Also, in being honest and saying I choose not to now (for these reasons), it brings an honesty to when U go back and ask them to dance again.
OK, I'll admit I haven't really woken up yet, and maybe I'm looking too deep into this... If the person about whom Mr Pants is talking reads this... come and get me for a dance: any time!!!!!!
Last edited by CJ; 3rd-June-2009 at 10:42 AM.
Hell yeah! A certain forumite I knew well at one point would never ever dance with anyone at Cheshunt, or anywhere else for that matter unless they were young and slim (apart from me, my sister and a small handful of our lady friends).
Why? - "Oh dear God no....they're all old and fat".
Charming!
I wouldn't mind, but he was a crap dancer anyway.
As far as I know, he doesn't do MJ anymore - Thank goodness!
Yeah, you're right CJ, and I pleaded for the dance for the sake or everyone else in the room before you took the rest of your clothes off.
You are an example of what I encounter most in Scotland, the polite refuser. I was with you at the weekend while you were genuinely on a break and the first thing you did when refreshed was seek out the woman you had refused
What I was trying to say is that it seems a bit of a desperate attempt to strike back at these people by saying 'well, you refused me but, hey, you are not a very good dancer anyway' The people that I know who have a reputation as refusers are good dancers and it is because people do want to dance with them that they (the asker) will risk the refusal and they (the refuser) know they will 'get away' with their behaviour. No-one would give a monkeys about it if the corpse, for example, were to refuse them.
It's all relative innit? A hotshot refuser at one venue in say...I dunno Norfolk could be the equivalent of a bouncy nightmare in the blues room at Southport and no one would care if he refused in there....but in Norfolk he could be seen as a great dancer who refuses and upsets all the ladies.
I only had one painful refusal over the weekend and that was someone who I last danced with at the Ceroc Champs (someone I see fairly often and had danced with alot, he's a good dancer who I liked dancing with) but at the champs I was tired, my feet hurt and I just wasn't following his lead as he would have liked and although I usually welcome feedback that night I just was not enjoying it and politely asked if we could end the dance.
Since then he's avoided me so I asked at Southport and he said no then mumbled something about changing his shirt - which he didn't. So yea he's a really good dancer but I honestly never want to dance with him again as he's just made me feel rubbish.
Anyhow I dont normally mind being refused as you can often tell when a guy needs a rest / drink etc but it isn't nice when you then see them with someone else.
He is indeed a very polite refuser.
I was completely caught out when I approached him at the end of the night with his shoes already changed, when accused (in a light-hearted way) that he never danced with me CJ managed to list the times and venues where we've danced before - much to my amazement and embarassment!
I turned down only one dance over the weekend. I was genuinely knackered, as I’d had 2 or 3 very fast dances in the main room. And to be honest I was very surprised that he even asked me, as I was doing my best to give off the appropriate body language – sitting down, head down and looking at the floor and taking sips from my water bottle which I was holding. I knew he was watching me, so was trying to show that I wasn’t available, but after staring at me for 20-30 seconds, he came and asked and I just said that I was hot and tired from some fast dances and could we dance later. He wandered off and I couldn’t find him (or remember what he looked like properly - I'd been a bit dizzy when he asked me!) when the next track came on, although I did look for him.
But this does illustrate something about asking – why don’t people read body language better? This isn’t the first time I’ve had this happen. And I will freely admit that I do sometimes ask men who look a bit warm, but I always say “would you like to dance, if you’re not too hot or tired that is?” and I rarely get turned down. I know that men are notoriously bad at reading body language, but surely they need to learn in dancing? Maybe a little card needs to be given out to beginners with some basic instructions on dance etiquette that says “if the woman is sitting out, looking at the floor, drinking, fanning herself, not watching the dancers and not making eye contact with anyone, chances are she’s on a break and you’d be better off waiting a track before you ask her to dance”. And similar but opposite instructions to the women saying that if they spend their whole time avoiding eye contact and staring at the floor, the men will think they are on a break and not ask them to dance! Might save a lot of confusion…
Of course this isn’t going to do anything about those who are just plain rude and don’t give a toss about anyone else. I don’t think that there is anything that those who are polite or whose feelings are hurt by them can do, except move on and put it down to experience.
Koshka – your situation sounds somewhat different. Do you think that maybe his feelings were hurt by what happened at the champs? Maybe he didn’t understand why you wanted to finish the dance early? It would be a shame to lose someone you enjoy dancing with due to a misunderstanding, though I understand why his apparent rudeness this weekend has put you off.
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