View Poll Results: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

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  • I like taking part in MJ competitions

    18 30.51%
  • I would like to enter, but haven't so far

    12 20.34%
  • I can't imagine myself entering a competition

    2 3.39%
  • I would only enter Dance With A Stranger

    4 6.78%
  • I would only do a local competition

    3 5.08%
  • I wish there were more options for newcomers/novices

    6 10.17%
  • I would like a partner please!

    14 23.73%
  • I like to watch/support, but wouldn't enter

    4 6.78%
  • I think dance competitions are evil (expect 1 answer!)

    6 10.17%
  • I'm not interested in competitions at all

    10 16.95%
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Thread: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

  1. #1
    Registered User Patrick's Avatar
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    Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    With Brit Rock now in the past, my thoughts are on -

    1. "Why am I drawn to dance competitions?" and
    2. "Why are most dancers apparently not interested, or even scared of them?"

    We didn't go to Brit Rock in the end, even though we were entered. My dance partner felt she wasn't ready, and that has rather shaken my confidence for the time being. Hers too perhaps. An example of why competitions may sometimes do more harm than good?

    What are your thoughts on the merits or otherwise of modern jive competitions, at national or local level?

    My best wishes to all who enter the competitions, all who support them, and to everyone else too.

    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick; 15th-October-2006 at 11:13 AM.

  2. #2
    Registered User Blueshoes's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    With Brit Rock now in the past, my thoughts are on -

    1. "Why am I drawn to dance competitions?"

    Maybe it's something in my makeup, I don't see dance as purely social, as a dancer I want to be as good as I can be.

    That doesn't mean I'll ever star on Strictly dance fever or be invited to perform privately in front of the queen, I know I have my limits. But I would like to know how to spin properly, how to interpret the music better, how to lead to the best of my ability and make the overall dance experience better for both me and the lady I'm dancing with at the time.

    Normal progression just doesn't allow for this. I'll never learn these things simply by attending class nights, going to freestyles and doing workshops (at least not the sort of workshops I've been to in the past).

    Competitions make you think about what you're doing. Things you would never usually think of start to come into the process; I know this moves feels OK but what does it LOOK like? I don't want to make mistakes in competition, why does this move go wrong 20% of the time, what am I doing wrong? What is it this guy over there is doing that it makes me want to watch him? Why do I fall over so often?

    Most of the answers lie in that I jumped into this thing half cocked and never learnt the basics, or asked myself why I was doing things. I just did as I was shown and developed a multitude of bad habits. Preparing for competition makes me confront a lot of questions which when answered will make me a better dancer, that's why I'm going in for them.



    And I want to beat the pants off everyone else of course .

  3. #3
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    What are your thoughts on the merits or otherwise of modern jive competitions, at national or local level?
    There have been dozens of threads about this area (mostly started by Gus I reckon )

    But to recap my views:
    Merits:
    • Good incentive to practise
    • Feeling of achievement
    • Better dancing technique
    • Excuse to buy posh frocks
    • Fame, glory, etc.


    Otherwise:
    • Depression, worry, anxiety, stress, etc.
    • Focus on visuals rather than feeling
    • Focus on one partner rather than many
    • No-one knows what MJ is, therefore always controversy
    • Takes time away from dancing

  4. #4
    Registered User Patrick's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshoes View Post
    Maybe it's something in my makeup, I don't see dance as purely social, as a dancer I want to be as good as I can be.

    That doesn't mean I'll ever star on Strictly dance fever or be invited to perform privately in front of the queen, I know I have my limits. But I would like to know how to spin properly, how to interpret the music better, how to lead to the best of my ability and make the overall dance experience better for both me and the lady I'm dancing with at the time.

    Normal progression just doesn't allow for this. I'll never learn these things simply by attending class nights, going to freestyles and doing workshops (at least not the sort of workshops I've been to in the past).

    Competitions make you think about what you're doing. Things you would never usually think of start to come into the process; I know this moves feels OK but what does it LOOK like? I don't want to make mistakes in competition, why does this move go wrong 20% of the time, what am I doing wrong? What is it this guy over there is doing that it makes me want to watch him? Why do I fall over so often?

    Most of the answers lie in that I jumped into this thing half cocked and never learnt the basics, or asked myself why I was doing things. I just did as I was shown and developed a multitude of bad habits. Preparing for competition makes me confront a lot of questions which when answered will make me a better dancer, that's why I'm going in for them.

    And I want to beat the pants off everyone else of course .
    ..............

    Me too! You saved me a lot of effort if I'd tried to explain all that right now.

    Thank you Mr Blue.

    Patrick

    (Psst, have you also noticed, as u get better quickly, the ladies can be very impressed. It is very nice to be appreciated!

    And I can really enjoy and appreciate dancing with a good partner now, to a degree I didn't get before I started comps. I know that we as a couple have had a much better, completely different experience than I used to get. Pure bliss sometimes.)
    Last edited by Patrick; 15th-October-2006 at 12:19 PM.

  5. #5
    Registered User Daydreaming Diva's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    With Brit Rock now in the past, my thoughts are on -
    I'm cheesed off. I just spent a long time typing a reply to this thread and when I pressed preview I seemed to lose it.

    Any idea how it can be retrieved?

  6. #6
    Registered User Patrick's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    [QUOTE=Daydreaming Diva;292507]
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    With Brit Rock now in the past, my thoughts are on -

    I'm cheesed off. I just spent a long time typing a reply to this thread and when I pressed preview I seemed to lose it.

    Any idea how it can be retrieved?
    Its happened 2 me 2
    Try pressing 'Back' button until, hopefully u reach wot u typed. Then copy it b4 posting!

  7. #7
    Registered User Nessiemonster's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    I've not yet entered a competition, though would like to. Two problems for me: 1. No partner! 2. I'm actually not that competitive!

    So why would I want to do it?? Because I think it would be fun and it would challenge my dancing. It would enable to develop new skills in dancing and help improve my confidence.

    I'm not really into trying to beat other people (so probably wouldn't do that well in competition!), but I do want to be the best that *I* can be. In a competition sense that would be both for myself and for my partner. With the right partner, that would be amazing!

    And no, one mustn't get so caught up in trying to win that one forgets to dance with feeling - without feeling my dancing is dire!

  8. #8
    Registered User Daydreaming Diva's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    [QUOTE=Patrick;292514]
    Quote Originally Posted by Daydreaming Diva View Post

    Its happened 2 me 2
    Try pressing 'Back' button until, hopefully u reach wot u typed. Then copy it b4 posting!
    Tried that over and over - zilch!!

    Thanks for trying though.

  9. #9
    Registered User Patrick's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    There have been dozens of threads about this area (mostly started by Gus I reckon )

    But to recap my views:
    Merits:
    • Good incentive to practise
    • Feeling of achievement
    • Better dancing technique
    • Excuse to buy posh frocks
    • Fame, glory, etc.


    Otherwise:
    • Depression, worry, anxiety, stress, etc.
    • Focus on visuals rather than feeling
    • Focus on one partner rather than many
    • No-one knows what MJ is, therefore always controversy
    • Takes time away from dancing
    Very nice summary David. And have a , it seems to be more acceptable these days!

    I haven't fallen into the "Focus on visuals rather than feeling" trap yet. I assumed that if the dance felt wonderful (as it sometimes does), it must look wonderful too. I recently saw myself on video for the first time! It may have felt good, but I looked shockingly bad, in my own view. Funnily enough, others watching the same dance on video thought I looked fine.... go figure.

    Having lit the blue touchpaper, I'm now off to do some non-competition dancing at the Bromsgrove T. L8R!

    Patrick
    Last edited by Patrick; 15th-October-2006 at 12:53 PM.

  10. #10
    Registered User Patrick's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    [QUOTE=Daydreaming Diva;292518]
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post

    Tried that over and over - zilch!!

    Thanks for trying though.
    Did you check the "Remember me" box when you logged on? If not you can get these problems, as you get logged out before you post. No way to recover, AFAIK.

    I would really like to hear your thoughts, if you can regain your composure! If it's a labour of love, it's worth editing it offline first, or at least copy your text into the clipboard before posting, as a fallback if it goes wrong. (Highlight text, then Control-C)

    I have been there, 5am after taking 1 hour to compose the post of a lifetime. Couldn't remember what I said after I lost it. But I know it was great!

    Have a nice day....

    Patrick

  11. #11
    Registered User Nessiemonster's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    I recently saw myself on video for the first time! It may have felt good, but I looked shockingly bad, in my own view. Funnily enough, others watching the same dance on video thought I looked fine.... go figure.
    I think this is because when we see ourselves on video (or in a photo etc) we are primarily focused on how we look as an individual. We notice all the things about ourselves that we really don't like, and focus down to the tiny detail of our own performance. We don't tend to pay so much attention to the context around us.

    Others will see the big picture - the context of the whole dance. They won't notice that "I do this funny thing with my hand", or "I stick my bum out too much", or whatever. They'll notice the whole dance, and view it far more objectively, as it should be viewed.

    Watching a video of yourself dancing can be a great tool to help improve those niggly things (especially if aiming for a performance), but is not the be all and end all of your dancing abilities. It's always important to balance that against others comments, and definitely how it feels!

    (As an aside, I recently had the 'pleasure' of watching a video of myself dancing some salsa. I haven't done much salsa for years. I enjoy it because it feels good, but had the shock of my life when I saw the video and realised I actually Looked Good doing it!!!

    Mind you, it was only on a digital camera screen, so I couldn't pick out the niggly detail. Probably just as well!!! )

  12. #12
    Registered User Magic Hans's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    There have been dozens of threads about this area (mostly started by Gus I reckon )

    But to recap my views:
    Merits:
    • Good incentive to practise
    • Feeling of achievement
    • Better dancing technique
    • Excuse to buy posh frocks
    • Fame, glory, etc.


    Otherwise:
    • Depression, worry, anxiety, stress, etc.
    • Focus on visuals rather than feeling
    • Focus on one partner rather than many
    • No-one knows what MJ is, therefore always controversy
    • Takes time away from dancing


    Personally, I'd add a couple of things to this

    On the plus side, there might be 'Recognition by peers'. It (generally) means alot to someone to be praised/rewarded/recognised by those we deeply respect.

    On the neg side, side might be entirely sick and tired of proving their talent or worth to somone else .... we seem to have a life time of tests and targets that start at school (sometime pre-school)

  13. #13
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessiemonster View Post
    I've not yet entered a competition, though would like to. Two problems for me: 1. No partner! 2. I'm actually not that competitive!

    So why would I want to do it?? Because I think it would be fun and it would challenge my dancing. It would enable to develop new skills in dancing and help improve my confidence.

    I'm not really into trying to beat other people (so probably wouldn't do that well in competition!), but I do want to be the best that *I* can be. In a competition sense that would be both for myself and for my partner. With the right partner, that would be amazing!

    And no, one mustn't get so caught up in trying to win that one forgets to dance with feeling - without feeling my dancing is dire!
    (Except that I found myself a partner and entered the Scottish Ceroc Champs back in September.)

    The most worthwhile part of the experience was regular practice with a partner. Looking back, the competition was almost an incidental detail compared to that.

    In the poll I've said I'd only do "local competitions". That's not strictly true. I wouldn't travel just to do a competition, but if I was travelling anyway, I might decide to compete also. (If that makes any sense?)
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  14. #14
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nessiemonster View Post
    I think this is because when we see ourselves on video (or in a photo etc) we are primarily focused on how we look as an individual. ... Others will see the big picture - the context of the whole dance.
    Plausible, but I prefer the luvvie theory.
    On which note, I suppose "objective feedback" should get added to the pro section.

  15. #15
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    There are two reasons why I don't enter dance competitions...

    The major one is I did a lot of sport competitively in my younger days and I have no desire to re-enter that lifestyle.
    The minor one is; no way am I paying to have some other buggers hog the dance floor when I want to dance

    BRING BACK THE CHARITY MARATHONS INSTEAD !!!

  16. #16
    Registered User Daydreaming Diva's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Thanks Patrick. No, I never check the 'Remember me' box, but will do in future. It's usually OK, but this time (long meaningful post) it mattered. Feeling really miserable - everything seems to be going wrong today so thanks for the hug. Couldn't blow me a few kisses as well could you? Think I'm on a low after the most wonderful evening on Friday at Hove before the Saturday comps, which I didn't go to in the end.

    Will try and summon up the spirit to give you my thoughts later.

  17. #17
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Very nice summary David. And have a , it seems to be more acceptable these days!
    Rep speaks louder than hugs (+ve rep, just in case you were wondering )

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    I haven't fallen into the "Focus on visuals rather than feeling" trap yet.
    I don't think it's a "trap" - but that's just one of the things you need to do, to enter competitions. It's all about the visuals, in other words.

    Have a look at the "To successfully compete takes" and "Why do you compete?" threads - they've got more opinions on this area.

  18. #18
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    The talk of Britrock made me revisit the thread about the year I went along. I was only going to spectate but ended up being talked into entering the intermediates (only for fun, I was a pretty inexperienced dancer at the time). Our practice time probably totalled about 1 1/2 hours (in fact I think we spent more time shopping - which was getting the priorities right!) I had a good day, enjoyed watching some great dancing from people who had clearly put a lot of work into it, was petrified when it was time for me to dance - but it did my confidence good.

    For me, I guess it would be like studying - I've done evening courses with qualifications just for the fun of learning. Having a goal and target to aim for. I don't have to be better than everyone else, just aim to be as good as I can be.

    Hmm, on reflection I'd rather like to have another go at a competition some day. Shortage of local partners though who would be interested.

  19. #19
    Ceroc Teacher Gordon J Pownall's Avatar
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    If they bring people together, even if just for the freestyle in between which BritRocK did for me this year (amongst other things)...then they are great...
    Gordy
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  20. #20
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    Re: Dance Competitions! What do u feel about them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueshoes View Post
    Maybe it's something in my makeup, I don't see dance as purely social, as a dancer I want to be as good as I can be.
    As a dancer, point to anyone who wants to be worse than they can be!? Why does making it a purely social dance exclude the possibility that people don't want to be as good as they can be? Or try to be?

    Normal progression just doesn't allow for this. I'll never learn these things simply by attending class nights, going to freestyles and doing workshops (at least not the sort of workshops I've been to in the past).
    "Normal progression"? Do you mean what's taught from stage, what you have lerned from the stage, or what you could learn from the stage? Why won't you ever learn stuff from watching the stage and dancing with people in a normal class/workshop?

    I think that the only void I find in current teaching is pointing out areas where people could improve... or more appropriately, pupils picking up on these areas. What to do to improve is not that important: if the pupil identifies what they want to work on, then they will find feedback on it, ask people about it and watch for things to help them improve it.
    If you approach a class with the concept of ignoring the actual moves that are being taught, and seeing what else is there - you can pick up quite a bit.

    Competitions make you think about what you're doing. Things you would never usually think of start to come into the process;...
    Really? The only thing I would think on differently on for practice to a competition would be presentation to an outside audience... And I don't dance for them: I dance for me and my partner.

    As Ducassi points out, the biggest improvement comes from having someone to spend some one-on-one time with and give direct feedback - the actual 'competition' is only there for motivation.


    What do I feel about dance competitions?
    I think that MJ is primarily a social dance and the best measure of success is being asked to dance. Putting that into a competition environment would translate to the person who could adapt to different music and different partners the best. Someone who wins or is placed in a rotational 'Lucky Dip' would be the only competition result I would be wholey impressed by.

    Anything else can be won with single mindedness, hard work and time/money dedicated to it. In isolation. It's this isolation that (for me) is against the whole MJ ethos and what most competitions stifle. When people are practicing, they are practicing how to dance and how to look good - at the exclusion of the environment they are trying to represent.

    Competitions - evil. Weekenders - heavenly. {IMHO}

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