Development, Progression

[Groovemeister]

One thing I wanted to do at Breeze was find out where my dancing ability sat in whole scheme of things. Me and my partner are proficient dancers and are able to adapt and change and learn new styles quite easily.

Really I wanted to be able to use that knowledge and develope further, maybe in to competition,teaching, even just being the best I can be.

We went and did the video clinic to get some feed back which was nerve wracking to say the least but I got a lot out of it and am quite glad I did it.

One of things that did come out of it though was about the general dance style taught in Ceroc classes and the things you need to learn when you want to take things a stage further do not line up.

I realize that Ceroc is about getting people dancing and that is great and I wouldn't want it to change.

What I have been used to in my dance past though is that you learn the basics that form the foundation to your development, it's where you take these that sort's the wheat from the chaff.

With "Ceroc,MJ" this dosn't seem possible from what I know know because although when you have learnt every move in the book there is still so much more you need to learn or even unlearn in my case. This isn't taught at the moment it is something that is gained through watching other's. Thank god for weekenders then because if I hadn't of gone I would have been none the wiser because there are very few people who dance in a more advanced style around my way.

I know you were talking about advanced classes in other threads but even this is limiting because unless you start building from the basics again you will have a lot of bad habits built in by this point.

I find this frustrating as hell just wondering what you guy's had experienced did your progression/ development hit a brick wall.

[Blueshoes]

I know you were talking about advanced classes in other threads but even this is limiting because unless you start building from the basics again you will have a lot of bad habits built in by this point.

I find this frustrating as hell just wondering what you guy's had experienced did your progression/ development hit a brick wall.

Absolutely! When I started MJ I had done no form of dance since my adolescence when I took ballroom classes (I wasn't interested in dancing, it was mainly to meet girls!). The great attraction of MJ for me was you could learn it so quickly and not worry about feet positioning or rubbish like that.

Now that I've got further I realise this is exactly what I need to progress. I've got really frustrated in classes when we're shown a move but not how to lead it (works fine in the class when the ladies know what's coming but unless you know the lead it won't work in freestyle) and I've found workshops to be very limited in what they teach (moves, not how to do them properly).

This at least has been recognised in Knutsford and a "dance academy" has been set up as a five week course which goes back to basics such as leading and following properly, the dynamics behind spinning and how to do it, footwork, making beginners moves more special, body movement and musical interpretation, and how to make the dance a partnership from which both participants create a better experience.

Just what I needed, I'm hoping this is going to sort a few of my problems out, though I've no doubt at all it'll ruin my dancing before I get better as I have to unlearn a lot of bad habits first!

[Chef]

This at least has been recognised in Knutsford and a "dance academy" has been set up as a five week course which goes back to basics such as leading and following properly, the dynamics behind spinning and how to do it, footwork, making beginners moves more special, body movement and musical interpretation, and how to make the dance a partnership from which both participants create a better experience.

Hurrah!! At last! Anybody in the area beat a path to wherever Knutsford is.

It took me ages to work out (by means of going to places where the above stuff was taught) that my dancing didn't have even the merest hint of any foundation in technique and was, at best, just waggling my arms around while music played in the background. The idea of offering instruction in the above core skills, as a course, is something that I applaud and am deeply envious that I didn't find such a course.

Bravo to whoever is running this course.

[straycat]

Bravo to whoever is running this course.

Looks like Keith and Janey.

Not surprisingly, it seems popular (aka 'Sold Out')

[clevedonboy]

lots of stuff leading to

I'll get it over and done with quickly rather than people dragging it out over several replies

Attend lessons in

WCS *
Lindy *
Ballroom *
AT *

* Delete as required

[Groovemeister]

I'll get it over and done with quickly rather than people dragging it out over several replies

Attend lessons in

WCS *
Lindy *
Ballroom *
AT *

* Delete as required

Obviously you are aware of that but before last weekend I didn't know. I have danced Latin,Salsa and Ballroom to high level anyway

My other point is why spend £ on learning how to dance in a MJ CEROC style to then be tolled to forget it because it's wrong you need to go and learn to dance another way by the very people you are paying to teach you

[Chef]

I'll get it over and done with quickly rather than people dragging it out over several replies

Attend lessons in

WCS *
Lindy *
Ballroom *
AT *

* Delete as required

To expand just a little bit. The reasons to learn these other dances is because they each teach you (some more strongly than the others) aspects of technique that MJ, in general, doesn't bother you with.

Hence my, shouted at an indecently loud volume, BRAVO, for the Knutsford course (I must get on multimap and find out where that is).

[ducasi]

My other point is why spend £ on learning how to dance in a MJ CEROC style to then be tolled to forget it because it's wrong you need to go and learn to dance another way by the very people you are paying to teach you

While learning other dance style can be good to bring ideas back to Ceroc/MJ, I think you can learn everything you need about MJ technique inside Ceroc, given the right opportunities – that would include workshops on lead/follow, footwork, style, etc...

While I've done a bit of WCS and Salsa, most of my "technique", if I have anything worth calling that, has come from classes and workshops in MJ given or presented by Ceroc Scotland. (That's not to belittle the other workshops and classes I have attended from independents, just that they have been relatively few in number.)

That said, I'd like to try a bit of Tango to improve my ability to do tango-esque/Jango style dancing; more WCS to see if I can figure it out; and I wouldn't even mind having a go at something a little bit more "street" to see if I could maybe get some more of a funky style.

[robd]

We went and did the video clinic to get some feed back which was nerve wracking to say the least but I got a lot out of it and am quite glad I did it.

to you for that. I thought about doing so but didn't have the nerve. Who did the analysis for you? Would you do it again?

One of things that did come out of it though was about the general dance style taught in Ceroc classes and the things you need to learn when you want to take things a stage further do not line up.

How did this come out? Did you feel that the advice you were given from your video session didn't match up with what you feel you need to do to become a better dancer? Or did you feel that the advice you got there conflicted with the advice you get at your local nights?

This isn't taught at the moment it is something that is gained through watching other's. Thank god for weekenders then because if I hadn't of gone I would have been none the wiser because there are very few people who dance in a more advanced style around my way.

I think there are probably very few people who 'dance in a more advanced style' around anyone's way because, by definition, these people are in advance of the majority of other people. However I do agree that you need to travel more widely to gain exposure to different styles and techniques.

I find this frustrating as hell just wondering what you guy's had experienced did your progression/ development hit a brick wall.

I am not sure I feel that I have hit a brick wall - there's always room for improvement and potential for musical interpretation, for example, is endless. I started doing Jango workshops a few months back and continue with those as they have a solid technique foundation (as well as being fun). Also starting to learn WCS in a fairly haphazard manner - probably needs more commitment. Considering also getting some private lessons but really need to work out exactly what I want to get out of them as well as who might be the best person(s) with whom to take them.

Robert

[Groovemeister]

to you for that. I thought about doing so but didn't have the nerve. Who did the analysis for you? Would you do it again?

Richard B I can't remember his sir name fully. I would do it again to see how my style had changed since the last time. Boy is it stressfull though and it really took some debating over afterwards to get some sort of level. Richard I felt was generally talking to us about competition level. So from where I am now it means I have to change a lot of things about my style if I want to progress in that way.
It has made me consider this now and I want to persue it whether I will compete I don't know but at least I know roughly how to get there now.

How did this come out? Did you feel that the advice you were given from your video session didn't match up with what you feel you need to do to become a better dancer? Or did you feel that the advice you got there conflicted with the advice you get at your local nights?

I don't feel there is much advice from our local nights in that way as I have already asked. Thats what I found really frustrating. NO criticisim of the people just that its not set up like that. We both knew where our week points were anyway and thats what he picked up on in expression and musicality something I have tried in the past but found difficult to lead. It was the fundemental elements that were picked up more like foot movements and leading that were more difficult for me get my head around

I think there are probably very few people who 'dance in a more advanced style' around anyone's way because, by definition, these people are in advance of the majority of other people. However I do agree that you need to travel more widely to gain exposure to different styles and techniques.

Without doubt and I did not realize that until last weekend. We do go to most of the frestyles around our way as you know Rob and thats where I was even more confused because I thought our area was quite representative.

I am not sure I feel that I have hit a brick wall - there's always room for improvement and potential for musical interpretation, for example, is endless. I started doing Jango workshops a few months back and continue with those as they have a solid technique foundation (as well as being fun). Also starting to learn WCS in a fairly haphazard manner - probably needs more commitment. Considering also getting some private lessons but really need to work out exactly what I want to get out of them as well as who might be the best person(s) with whom to take them.

Robert

It just feels like I have hit a brick wall because what I thought was right is now wrong. I am now going to perserver starting Sunday in Eaton Socon. I know how good a dancer I am I just need to learn to take it to its full potential.

[MartinHarper]

Why spend £ on learning how to dance in a MJ CEROC style to then be told to forget it because it's wrong you need to go and learn to dance another way by the very people you are paying to teach you

Out of interest, what was it that you learnt in Ceroc classes that you are now being told you should not do, or should do differently?

[straycat]

Obviously you are aware of that but before last weekend I didn't know. I have danced Latin,Salsa and Ballroom to high level anyway

My other point is why spend £ on learning how to dance in a MJ CEROC style to then be tolled to forget it because it's wrong you need to go and learn to dance another way by the very people you are paying to teach you

Good question (and leaving aside the obvious contradiction-in-terms )

Surely if you're learning a different dance-form though, you may be told that MJ-style is wrong only in the context of that dance-form.

So yeah - if you go to learn AT, but insist on doing it MJ style, I agree - why bother? If you learn it properly - it will sever to improve your overall dance ability, which will then reflect in (hopefully) positive ways back into everything else you do.

The List, by the way (WCS, Lindy, AT, Ballroom) - is just the tip of the iceberg. Learn everything you can (or have time / money for) - tap, jazz, street, salsa, contemporary, hiphop, ballet, bhangra - you name it, it'll likely help improve your dancing.

[Groovemeister]

Out of interest, what was it that you learnt in Ceroc classes that you are now being told you should not do, or should do differently?

The foot movement and the lead.

The foot movement I would explain as being like learning to rise and fall in a Waltze and then being told not to do it. Also the position of your feet.

Strength of my lead which I always thought was pretty strong anyway but not force-full.

I may have got the wrong and of the stick on the lead bit but that is how I understood it and I asked a good number of questions believe me.

[Groovemeister]

Good question (and leaving aside the obvious contradiction-in-terms )

Surely if you're learning a different dance-form though, you may be told that MJ-style is wrong only in the context of that dance-form.

So yeah - if you go to learn AT, but insist on doing it MJ style, I agree - why bother? If you learn it properly - it will sever to improve your overall dance ability, which will then reflect in (hopefully) positive ways back into everything else you do.

The List, by the way (WCS, Lindy, AT, Ballroom) - is just the tip of the iceberg. Learn everything you can (or have time / money for) - tap, jazz, street, salsa, contemporary, hiphop, ballet, bhangra - you name it, it'll likely help improve your dancing.

I do and have done a number of the styles I do a tap class once a week I am also a "house" dancer take a look here www.housedancer.com.

I apparently add to much of these other styles to my movement's already thats what I mean when I say unlearn.

I am not criticising any comment's that were made on the day it's more the philosophy behind "Ceroc" and the way they imagine people want to progress even if they consider that they are only there for people to get into dancing.

It might just be me being a nightmare I am the sort of person that when I get into something I have to progress it until I have taken it as far as I can go. My misses got pissed of with me before when we did ballroom and latin because I wanted to practice 3 times a week as well as private lessons.

[Keith]

This at least has been recognised in Knutsford and a "dance academy" has been set up as a five week course which goes back to basics such as leading and following properly, the dynamics behind spinning and how to do it, footwork, making beginners moves more special, body movement and musical interpretation, and how to make the dance a partnership from which both participants create a better experience.

Just what I needed, I'm hoping this is going to sort a few of my problems out, though I've no doubt at all it'll ruin my dancing before I get better as I have to unlearn a lot of bad habits first!

Hi B.S,
Thanks for your comments and see you Sunday.
For those who have not seen our ‘School of Excellence’ it is as follows;
A five week course, 2 hour sessions. Our aim is to help promote and create some of the best dancers in the Northwest. It is for that reason, that we have tried to keep the numbers manageable, at 6 or 7 couples and at a cost of only £12.50 per 2 hours, not the usual workshop prices.
Our intention is to help fellow dancers in the following areas over the 5 weeks;
Correct Lead & Follow, which is actually a partnership, rather than ‘I’m leading, so you should do what I say!’ or ‘I know this move, so I’ll do it for you’ syndrome. The correct way not only to spin, but also how to lead a spin, we also taught this in Spain last week, where Mr Parr took part, so you can always ask him what he thought. (Great Holiday).
Week 2; Recap & video progress, mainly covering Lead & Follow (Posture + other areas this time)
Next stage spinning & touching on Musicality.
Wk 3 recap & Video, Presentation, starts & finishes, styling and attitude.
Wk4, recap & Video, Presentation & the 3 dimensions of dance + some dips & tricks
Wk5, recap & Video, Usage of different music, Floor positioning & frame of mind, plus recap of the 5 weeks.

I hope this makes sense?
I initially wanted to launch one compact group, but due to demand have run two separate groups, proving we have many dancers who are prepared to move backwards to go forwards.
Re learning something is harder than learning something new for the first time & it is for that reason that we also teach a lot of the above, during our normal Wednesday night lessons & the feedback is very positive.
We will be running this course again in the new year, dates to be confirmed, you can keep an eye on www.revolutiondance.co.uk if you are interested.