This week's routine?

[David Bailey]

I heard that Ceroc HQ mandate that every beginner's class should use the same set of moves in a given week, is this true?

For example, this week in Finchley, the beginner's routine was:

• Swizzle
• Basket
• Shoulder-slide
• Catapult

Was that the same everywhere across the UK? Did you do that routine in your beginner class?

If so, it might be interesting, as we could discuss "This week's routine" despite being in different venues.

I'll kick off - I thought the shoulder-slide was a naff move, I never use it, I'd much rather use the manspin instead (because I can lift my right arm up then rather than leave it dangling). Also, the link between the shoulder-slide and the catapult only really worked if there was a return in between, which seemed a bit iffy to me.

I liked the swizzle-into-basket combo, it flowed nicely.

The catapult seemed a bit much for the end of a beginner's class, I think a comb might have worked better.

ANy other comments?

[Gojive]

I heard that Ceroc HQ mandate that every beginner's class should use the same set of moves in a given week, is this true?

For example, this week in Finchley, the beginner's routine was:

• Swizzle
• Basket
• Shoulder-slide
• Catapult

Was that the same everywhere across the UK? Did you do that routine in your beginner class?

If so, it might be interesting, as we could discuss "This week's routine" despite being in different venues.

I'll kick off - I thought the shoulder-slide was a naff move, I never use it, I'd much rather use the manspin instead (because I can lift my right arm up then rather than leave it dangling). Also, the link between the shoulder-slide and the catapult only really worked if there was a return in between, which seemed a bit iffy to me.

I liked the swizzle-into-basket combo, it flowed nicely.

The catapult seemed a bit much for the end of a beginner's class, I think a comb might have worked better.

ANy other comments?

Well quelle coincidence mon ami! That's exactly what I did at Wuking...sorry, I mean Woking, last night, under the tuition of Howard and Nicola , so I guess the mandate seems a distinct possibility.

As far as the moves are concerned, I have no qualms about them - but then they were moves that I started on all those years ago, so I didn't really give it a second thought.

The reason I attended my first BC for years last night , was to encourage a friend to have a go at MJ (it worked a treat btw, he's hooked! ). On the journey back, we were talking about what he found the hardest...it was the basket . He just had a mental block when it came to the 'twist the lady out, twist the lady in' bit.

For my part, I really struggled to prevent myself jumping ahead (which Howard picked up on once or twice ), and breaking moves like the catapault down to 1/2 or even 1/4 beat segments

I think I learnt a lot about how cocky I may have become last night

[David Bailey]

On the journey back, we were talking about what he found the hardest...it was the basket . He just had a mental block when it came to the 'twist the lady out, twist the lady in' bit.

Interesting. I think our problem was with the catapult, but that's because we started a bit late, and had problems moving 2,000 women round or whatever it was.

I think I learnt a lot about how cocky I may have become last night

Could have been worse, you could have messed up the routine when everyone was watching you. Not that I'd ever do that, oh no...

[Gojive]

and had problems moving 2,000 women round or whatever it was.

Heh! We had one moment of chaos last night, when Howard said "move 5 ladies on", but over the background music 9 ladies thought he'd said "move 9 ladies on", and "5 ladies thought he'd said "move 9 ladies on".....I thought he'd said 'six', so I messed it up even further!

That incident apart most of the time the move round went very smoothly. In fact it seemed to be much better than the intermediates...I'm wondering it that's becuase beginner's pay more attention to the teacher, and spend less time talking to each other, than intermediates do?....it's just an idle thought though, before I get slapped for saying it .

[El Salsero Gringo]

I heard that Ceroc HQ mandate that every beginner's class should use the same set of moves in a given week, is this true?

It is true that there is a set of suggested beginners routines, and a set of suggested dates on which they could be taught.

On the plus side: The routines are well thought out: They cover all the current beginners moves; they repeat one move from the previous week, and they flow together nicely. Having a schedule to teach them on is a necessary corollary, since a lot of people go to more than one venue per week (particularly beginners in the first few months when they're in "Ceroc-frenzy") and it would be a pain to have two venues cover the same routine on different nights of the same week.

On the minus side: ...well, I'm struggling to think of one. No doubt I'll read about the disadvantages somewhere in the next hundred and twenty posts in this thread. Again and again and again.

Contrary to what I suspect a lot of people would like to believe, there is no centrally mandated compulsion to use these routines. As far as I am aware, the closest thing to such "regulation" comes from the individual franchisees - some of whom run more than one venue - and some of whom do restrict their teacher's latitude by insisting on particular class formats, routines etc. That's not a Ceroc thing though.

[Gojive]

On the plus side: The routines are well thought out: They cover all the current beginners moves; they repeat one move from the previous week, and they flow together nicely.

This approach I like. To me, it covers the idea of MJ not being a 'course of dance lessons', and yet it still retains continuity and structure from week to week - which can be so beneficial to committed beginners IMO.

For example, if the friend I mentioned above does continue to go to classes, it'd be nice for him to repeat something like his catapault that he learnt last night, when he returns home to Exeter next week, so he doesn't feel like he's starting all over again.

[David Bailey]

On the minus side: ...well, I'm struggling to think of one.

The most obvious potential downside is that people going to more than one beginner class a week will still only learn 1 routine. However, you could argue that they'll learn it really well

I think, if I were a beginner, I'd prefer to learn different moves on different nights. But then, I could be wrong.

[El Salsero Gringo]

I'll kick off - I thought the shoulder-slide was a naff move, I never use it, I'd much rather use the manspin instead

Does that mean it shouldn't be taught ever?

[AllanMcC]

Same routine in Edinburgh on Monday evening, so looks like it's throughout the country.
Allan

[David Bailey]

Re: shoulder-slide:

Does that mean it shouldn't be taught ever?

Well, I'm not sure it's a key beginner move, that's for sure. If there's only 16 beginner's moves, I'd rather not have 2 such similar moves - and to me, the manspin is better, because the man gets to do something with his spare arm.

So, I'd rather have each beginner move designed so that it teaches a key (and separate) concept - and I don't see how the shoulder-slide does that?

[Yogi_Bear]

I'll kick off - I thought the shoulder-slide was a naff move, I never use it, I'd much rather use the manspin instead (because I can lift my right arm up then rather than leave it dangling). Also, the link between the shoulder-slide and the catapult only really worked if there was a return in between, which seemed a bit iffy to me.

No I think the shoulder slide is one of the better beginner moves. It's susceptible to being danced with style and has a number of easy variations to appeal to dancers of all standards. Especially when compared with that stepping in and out side to side thing..........come to think of it, I like to use it myself......

[DavidY]

I heard that Ceroc HQ mandate that every beginner's class should use the same set of moves in a given week, is this true?

My understanding is that it's a different routine every day of the week. So the set routines on Monday are different to the set routines on Tuesday and so on...

If so, it might be interesting, as we could discuss "This week's routine" despite being in different venues.

.. so no - we'd have to discuss "This Monday's routine"

For example, this week in Finchley, the beginner's routine was:

• Swizzle
• Basket
• Shoulder-slide
• Catapult

Was that the same everywhere across the UK? Did you do that routine in your beginner class?

I was taxiing yesterday so I was vaguely paying attention. Yes we had that routine, but with an In-and-Out between the Armjive Swizzle and the Basket

Also, the link between the shoulder-slide and the catapult only really worked if there was a return in between, which seemed a bit iffy to me.

We also had the "without return in-between" variant...

I liked the swizzle-into-basket combo, it flowed nicely.

But maybe not with an In-and-Out (including the semi-circle/bouncing motion)

The catapult seemed a bit much for the end of a beginner's class, I think a comb might have worked better.

But isn't it better to stick the hard move at the end rather than at the beginning? If people struggle with the first move in a routine, then their chances of stringing the rest together are greatly reduced, even if they're easy moves.

[El Salsero Gringo]

My understanding is that it's a different routine every day of the week. So the set routines on Monday are different to the set routines on Tuesday and so on.....

That is correct. You can go to six beginner's classes in the same week and not get the same routine twice. The following week, each of those same six classes will use the next routine in the list from the one it used the previous week, again different to the routines used on all other nights of the same week. Some of the routines might have in fact been used on a different night of the previous week (or possibly the next week) but definitely not the same as any other night of the same week. Except for two classes on the same night. This is unlikely to be a problem as it would be difficult to attend two beginners classes in different venues on the same night. I hope that's all clear.

The most obvious potential downside is that people going to more than one beginner class a week will still only learn 1 routine.

I hope you can now see this is not the case!

[David Bailey]

That is correct. You can go to six beginner's classes in the same week and not get the same routine twice.

And then you'd be An Intermediate Dancer, after 1 week

That system sounds eminently sensible to me, thanks for explaining.

Re: transition from swizzle to basket:

But H always inserts an In and Out as an introduction to the Basket, which I feel does aid the transition.

Really? Howcum? Surely it's easier to simply not let go of your partner's hand?

as I led the following move by taking my right hand to the left shoulder I was, for a moment, in the curious position of having my arms crossed in front of my chest. Is that a style point or sheer incompetence ?

Depends how good it looks

[TheTramp]

And then you'd be An Intermediate Dancer, after 1 week

That system sounds eminently sensible to me, thanks for explaining.

Ummm. I think that they say it takes 12 weeks to be an intermediate dancer. So you'd actually need to go and do a class a day for 2 weeks before you achieve that!!

[David Bailey]

Ummm. I think that they say it takes 12 weeks to be an intermediate dancer. So you'd actually need to go and do a class a day for 2 weeks before you achieve that!!

Yeah, I thought it had changed to 12 weeks, but I still hear 6 weeks being bandied around, so I dunno.

Looking at the ceroc.com website, it says:

We normally recommend that it takes about 5 or 6 beginners classes to master the basic moves and feel comfortable to join in at Intermediate level.

[Freya]

Hi the Beginner moves at Culter last night were:

• First Move
• Manspin catching right
• Shoulder drop
• Octopus

I think! I was messing about with Gadget at the Back of the hall as we got there late. Trying to lead Gadget is not the easiest thing in the world.

[El Salsero Gringo]

Trying to lead Gadget is not the easiest thing in the world.

The cannonical quote, I believe, is "You can lead Gadget to a keyboard, but you can't make him think."

[David Bailey]

Yes we had that routine, but with an In-and-Out between the Armjive Swizzle and the Basket

You altered the Sacred Text?
BURN HIM!!!

We also had the "without return in-between" variant...

Ah, well, err, the return may have been added in at the suggestion of, umm, someone, whoe felt that it flowed better that way. Please don't burn me...

But maybe not with an In-and-Out (including the semi-circle/bouncing motion)

Yeah, that seems a bit weird - I'd have thought that the two double-handed moves were best taught without a break in between.

But isn't it better to stick the hard move at the end rather than at the beginning? If people struggle with the first move in a routine, then their chances of stringing the rest together are greatly reduced, even if they're easy moves.

I don't think so - because you'll have less time to practise the difficult move. If you learn the tough one at the start, then you'll be able to practise it every time you do the whole routine, so you have a better chance of getting it - at least, that's what I found. Sometimes a move only clicks when you've done it a certain number of times.

[DavidY]

You altered the Sacred Text?
BURN HIM!!!

Not me - I was only a taxi dancer on Monday night.

I don't think so - because you'll have less time to practise the difficult move. If you learn the tough one at the start, then you'll be able to practise it every time you do the whole routine, so you have a better chance of getting it - at least, that's what I found. Sometimes a move only clicks when you've done it a certain number of times.

I see what you mean, but I dunno - I've seen Beginners who haven't "got" it when the teacher has finished teaching & moved to the next move, and every time the teacher goes through the routine from the start, they still struggle, and feel at sea with the later easier moves because they've lost timing with the teacher.

If I'm taxiing I often do a mini-survey in the refresher class to see which move people found hardest, and then spend some time on that one before doing the rest.