Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 32 of 32

Thread: A Nasty Muslim

  1. #21
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 573 Times in 379 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    exactly we have men are studs women are sluts . Means the same thing but women seem to take offence to it ?
    hmm, im not entirely sure they "mean the same thing" They may be about the same thing but thats not quite the same

  2. #22
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,756
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 104 Times in 57 Posts

    Rep Power
    9

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    I find it unacceptable that an immigrant to this country is free to preach anti British doctrine in this country. Everyone else has to accept the Government and the law, and if they don't agree with it, there are acceptable ways to challenge it. For a person who has been welcomed from his own country into ours, to then bite that welcoming hand, is to me, unacceptable. i don't tar all Muslims with the same brush, but if every Muslim immigrant to this country was to believe the doctrine of some of the extremists, we would have a very serious problem. In fact we probably already do.

  3. #23
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Thanks
    641
    Thanked 376 Times in 284 Posts

    Rep Power
    13

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    I find it unacceptable that an immigrant to this country is free to preach anti British doctrine in this country. Everyone else has to accept the Government and the law, and if they don't agree with it, there are acceptable ways to challenge it. For a person who has been welcomed from his own country into ours, to then bite that welcoming hand, is to me, unacceptable. i don't tar all Muslims with the same brush, but if every Muslim immigrant to this country was to believe the doctrine of some of the extremists, we would have a very serious problem. In fact we probably already do.
    I'm going to take this debate to the next level. I'm not pretending I understand Muslims and, in posting this, I'm hoping to get a greater understanding. Up until 911 I gave Muslims little or no thought because they didn't impact on my life in any way. Now they are on the news every day and each and every day we've had to modify the way we act in the face of international terrorism threats, many of them from extremist Muslims who are proud of what they do in the name of their faith.

    There are two observations I've made recently about Muslims. Neither of them is favourable. The first is the attitude to Jews of a Muslim I was chatting with and the other is Jihad and fatwa.

    Attitude of a particular Muslim towards Jews. I recently attended a conference in South Africa. My party was mixed race and we'd all noticed that races were treated differently from each other during our visit. Late on our last night I was up late chatting with a well educated, seemingly well-balanced, Muslim woman. We were dicussing the different treatments we'd received which seemed to be based on our race. She was presenting a balanced view of equality and was very PC. Then, completely out of the blue, she went on to say, in a way that showed she had no doubt, that the only race that should be descriminated against was Jews! I asked what she meant and she switched in a moment to some kind of crazed zealot and came out with loads of vile stuff that I'm not even going to repeat - if I was Jewish I'd have alternated between anger, indignation, fear and outrage (in fact, I did feel most of these feelings and not a little shock!). I asked her if she thought that was how most Muslims felt and she said that, in her experience, it is!

    Jihad & fatwa. This is the bit that scares me the most. How can a modern religious movement order someone's death or declare war on a nation? This is precisely what happenned when Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in 1989 pronounced a death sentence on Salman Rushdie, the author of the Satanic Verses. For a religious movement to order the death of someone because of what they say or write has got to be wrong, hasn't it And in 1988 Osama bin Laden issued a fatwa in 1998, declaring war on the United States of America. To my simplistic view this would have been what motivated and made 911 legal to some Muslims.

    And now we're hearing that there are Muslim areas in our own country that those of other faiths are discouraged from entering.

    Of course the majority of Muslims are law-abiding citizens and an asset to our nation. But some are not. It is my belief that we are showing too much tolerance of anti-western pronouncements in the name of Islam. There is nothing wrong with preaching your faith. There is everything wrong with inciting death and destruction.
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 30th-September-2006 at 11:35 AM.

  4. #24
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 600 Times in 396 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    I find it unacceptable that an immigrant to this country is free to preach anti British doctrine in this country.
    Actually, I find it very acceptable - and quite re-assuring - that we allow everyone that amount of freedom of speech.

    What I find unacceptable is anyone, no matter what their immigration status / nationality / religion / whatever, preaching hatred.

    This guy's immigration status doesn't enter into the equation to me. And the 7/7 bombers weren't immigrants, remember; we've got plenty of home-grown nutters to go around.

  5. #25
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Thanks
    163
    Thanked 573 Times in 379 Posts

    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Actually, I find it very acceptable - and quite re-assuring - that we allow everyone that amount of freedom of speech.
    .
    I dont - i think theres quite a difference between "anti-British" speech from someone who now lives here and speech about better government, better amenities or something specificly better for them - we all should be allowed to do THAT. That amount of freedom of speech amounts to incitement in many cases - the BNP dont get away with it, but others often do.

  6. #26
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,756
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 104 Times in 57 Posts

    Rep Power
    9

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames View Post
    Actually, I find it very acceptable - and quite re-assuring - that we allow everyone that amount of freedom of speech.

    What I find unacceptable is anyone, no matter what their immigration status / nationality / religion / whatever, preaching hatred.

    This guy's immigration status doesn't enter into the equation to me. And the 7/7 bombers weren't immigrants, remember; we've got plenty of home-grown nutters to go around.
    I'm sorry mate, but no other country in the world would tolerate this. Freedom of speech is all good and well, but in most cases these muslim clerics are inciting hatred. The guys involved in 7/7 may have been born here, but they come from immigrant stock.

  7. #27
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 600 Times in 396 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I dont - i think theres quite a difference between "anti-British" speech from someone who now lives here and speech about better government, better amenities or something specificly better for them - we all should be allowed to do THAT. That amount of freedom of speech amounts to incitement in many cases - the BNP dont get away with it, but others often do.
    There are always limits to freedoms of speech, of course - classically the "yelling 'fire' in a theatre" examples.

    But I don't have a problem with someone saying, for example, that British values and culture are Bad - and I don't think British values and culture are so weak that they need that level of legal protection.

    And I don't care who says it, either - immigrants, asylum-seekers or native citizens. I know they're wrong, so it doesn't worry me. Stiff upper lip, what

  8. #28
    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,881
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Rep Power
    10

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon View Post
    i don't tar all Muslims with the same brush
    Oh really?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dance Demon
    but if every Muslim immigrant to this country was to believe the doctrine of some of the extremists
    ...sorry, what was that about same brush? I must have missed something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I'm going to take this debate to the next level.
    Next level up, or next level down?
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor
    if I was Jewish I'd have alternated between anger, indignation, fear and outrage (in fact, I did feel most of these feelings and not a little shock!).
    Actuallly, if you were Jewish you'd be entirely used to it by now and it would come as no kind of surprise or shock at all to hear what some people think about you.

  9. #29
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    3,756
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 104 Times in 57 Posts

    Rep Power
    9

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo View Post
    Oh really?...sorry, what was that about same brush? I must have missed something.
    I think you must have....

  10. #30
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Thanks
    641
    Thanked 376 Times in 284 Posts

    Rep Power
    13

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo View Post
    Actually, if you were Jewish you'd be entirely used to it by now and it would come as no kind of surprise or shock at all to hear what some people think about you.
    Many of my friends are Jewish and one of my Scottish aunts actually converted and now lives in Israel: my wife, Sue and I are often the only non-Jews invited to fund raisers and I used to live in Stanmore where I met, and became friends with many Jews. Therefore, in the course of my life I've heard many anti-semitic views, often repeated by Jews who'd been on the receiving end of them.

    Most of the anti-semitic insults I've heard have been off the cuff racist stuff from bigots who also have similar views about other minorities. Of course those insults are wrong, but, apart from an upset at the time, they do not seem organised or to have any objective apart from causing emotional upset to the recipient. Occasionally we hear about thugs assaulting minorities, they do this because they are thugs and because they are ignorant.

    The views I heard from this Muslim woman were not of this nature. They were based on historical facts. But that history was ancient. It would be similar to British children being told by their mothers and fathers to hate Norwegians because the Vikings used to raid our towns and villages.

    What shocked me most was not the comments from this Muslim woman, I've heard them all before, it was the change that came over her when she talked about Jews. There seemed to be a complete and utter conviction that was so deep-seated it would never be changed. And her Muslim family are not new immigrants, they are British citizens, she was born in London (I think) and her whole family come from a well respected profession. The impression I got was that her view of Jews is the view of most Muslims she knows.

    I'm not suggesting I know what to do about this. What I am saying is that we don't know what is being preached by some Muslims to their faithful. Whatever it is produces people who are willing to die for it and take huge numbers of non-Muslims with them. The hard bit is that there are millions of Muslims who are completely good. On the other hand, we have people being killed on the streets of London in the name of that particular faith. And we don't see much being done about it by our own Government apart from placing restrictions on us all. And, in doing that, we've lost
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 2nd-October-2006 at 10:15 AM.

  11. #31
    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,881
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Rep Power
    10

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    What shocked me most was not the comments from this Muslim woman, I've heard them all before, it was the change that came over her when she talked about Jews. There seemed to be a complete and utter conviction that was so deep-seated it would never be changed. And her Muslim family are not new immigrants, they are British citizens, she was born in London (I think) and her whole family come from a well respected profession. The impression I got was that her view of Jews is the view of most Muslims she knows.
    Like I said, this is not a suprise to most Jews.

  12. #32
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Thanks
    97
    Thanked 600 Times in 396 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    16

    Re: A Nasty Muslim

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    What shocked me most was not the comments from this Muslim woman, I've heard them all before, it was the change that came over her when she talked about Jews. There seemed to be a complete and utter conviction that was so deep-seated it would never be changed. And her Muslim family are not new immigrants, they are British citizens, she was born in London (I think) and her whole family come from a well respected profession. The impression I got was that her view of Jews is the view of most Muslims she knows.
    I don't know enough Muslims to say whether this is representative of a large minority, small minority, or a single whacko.

    On the other hand, I've heard some similarly vicious anti-Muslim comments made by a (very) small minority of British Jews. And again, these are made by otherwise-rational professional and well-educated people.

    The only comparison I can make, again, is the Northern Irish Situation. Most Northern Irish Catholics have some degree of anti-Protestantism, and vice-versa, simply because of the situation and the tribal culture there. But, given enough time away from that culture, and given enough experience of wider cultures, these views usually tend to diminish or vanish totally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I'm not suggesting I know what to do about this. What I am saying is that we don't know what is being preached by some Muslims to their faithful. Whatever it is produces people who are willing to die for it and take huge numbers of non-Muslims with them. The hard bit is that there are millions of Muslims who are completely good. On the other hand, we have people being killed on the streets of London in the name of that particular faith. And we don't see much being done about it by our own Government apart from placing restrictions on us all. And, in doing that, we've lost
    As I said, the only solution I know of is exposure to multiple viewpoints. Education and integration, in other words. Which is neither glamorous nor short-term, it takes decades and a lot of money for little visible rewards.

    So for your standard politician, it's not attractive - it's much easier to lock more people up, profile anyone with different skin colours, and talk about protecting innocent victims (not those guilty victims of course ).

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Those nasty people at Quicktime
    By Whitebeard in forum Geeks' Corner
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 1st-September-2005, 01:25 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •