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Thread: Teaching do you have to be qualified

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    Registered User Jivingdan's Avatar
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    Teaching do you have to be qualified

    I have been told a number of times that I should teach dips and drops,leans seducers etc as they appear to be my specialty. My question to you all is as long as the right insurance etc was in place is it right to teach something if you a) have a natural talent for it
    b) fully understand the need to teach all the relevant safety points
    c) have not completed any formal Modern Jive or other dance teaching course

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivingdan View Post
    I have been told a number of times that I should teach dips and drops,leans seducers etc as they appear to be my specialty. My question to you all is as long as the right insurance etc was in place is it right to teach something if you a) have a natural talent for it
    b) fully understand the need to teach all the relevant safety points
    c) have not completed any formal Modern Jive or other dance teaching course
    a) A natural talent at doing something means nothing. Quite often a natural talent at doing something makes it harder to teach, as you do things, well, naturally, without knowing how to do them, or worse, how to teach other people to do them. I'm not saying that it means you shouldn't, just that it means nothing.

    b) Again, understanding the need to teach safety isn't the same as knowing what safety to teach, or how to teach it. And having insurance in place is nice, but it still isn't the same as not being injured for the person who is hurt. I'm not saying that you don't, but again, just trying to make you aware of the consequences.

    c) To be honest, I don't know that completing any of the two 'formal' MJ teaching courses that I know about is any qualification for teaching anything other than beginner moves. Experience of teaching, being taught by more experienced people, and suchlike are what matters more. There are some very good (well, I think that they are good!) teachers of such things, who've never done any qualification either. There are also some very bad ones. Who's friends probably told them that they were ideally suited to teach such things.

    I'm not saying that you shouldn't teach. Just that I think that having a few friends say that you should, isn't the first place to go about doing it. Why don't you talk to your local organiser (or other experienced person), and see what they think?

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    Registered User quiet_flame's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    hmmm, this is a hard one, as teaching things and being able to do them well are not necessarily directily correlative.

    There are many people out there who can dance a move, but don't necessarliy understand all of the mechanics that make a move work.

    Is it right?
    Well, that's an opinion based question.

    What completing the MJ teacher training course does is it teaches you (I assume) how to break down a move into it's seperate component's. Then use to most effective language possible to get the majority of people to be able to follow your example.

    My suggestion would be, ask a company head.
    They will give you the best indication of what they think is correct.
    What they may do is ask you to teach it to a small class, or mock class to asses your teaching ability. If they think you're more than capable, they'd want to sign you up to teach a workshop or two

    This is your best bet.

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet_flame View Post
    Stuff
    Heh. I think we said pretty much the same thing!

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    Registered User quiet_flame's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Heh. I think we said pretty much the same thing!
    I know, for once though I'm less verbose than you

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    A mix of "yes" and "no" from me -

    Yes: Since you have a passion for it, have "specialised" and obviously know what your doing on the dance floor, you may be better than a regular teacher who has to teach everything and only does these moves on a fairly sporadic basis.

    No: teaching is teaching - you need to be able to put accross the information so that your pupils 'get' it. It's OK being able to lead the moves (no matter how well), but teaching how to lead them may be a different thing.

    I would try it out on a teacher or couple of 'test' pupils first and see what they/you think.

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    Registered User Jivingdan's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by quiet_flame View Post

    My suggestion would be, ask a company head.
    They will give you the best indication of what they think is correct.
    What they may do is ask you to teach it to a small class, or mock class to asses your teaching ability. If they think you're more than capable, they'd want to sign you up to teach a workshop or two

    This is your best bet.
    I have been asked by a number of venue managers if I would be interested in teaching for CEROC. Unfortunately It appears that I do not fit the profile for what is a male CEROC teacher this days. That was the feeedback that came back after I failed my auditon. You do not fit the profile. Too old, not slim enough and unfortunately I dont look like a male model. Plenty of organisers would like me to teach. I am looking to apply to that other Northern MJ organisation who also want me to teach. so we will see. I have no intention of teaching without a formal qualification I just wondered what peoples thoughts were.

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivingdan View Post
    I have been asked by a number of venue managers if I would be interested in teaching for CEROC. Unfortunately It appears that I do not fit the profile for what is a male CEROC teacher this days. That was the feeedback that came back after I failed my auditon. You do not fit the profile. Too old, not slim enough and unfortunately I dont look like a male model. Plenty of organisers would like me to teach. I am looking to apply to that other Northern MJ organisation who also want me to teach. so we will see. I have no intention of teaching without a formal qualification I just wondered what peoples thoughts were.
    That used to be the case some years ago. I believed that it wasn't the case these days, and that it was solely down to merit.

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    Registered User Jivingdan's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    That used to be the case some years ago. I believed that it wasn't the case these days, and that it was solely down to merit.
    Maybe you're right Tramp maybe I'm just not up to the job. Fair enough. I thats the case then I wouldn't want to be teaching.

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Heh. I got turned down 4 times by Ceroc, with 3 different franchisees putting me forward. Didn't even get as far as an audition. Now I'm a Ceroc affiliate teacher.

    Wouldn't let that stop you if it's what you want. Just trying to give a little advice.

    And I can't say why they turned you down. Since I don't know that either. Just that these days, I thought that it was supposed to be on merit, and not on how you look.

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivingdan View Post
    You do not fit the profile.
    = doesn't look like Dan Hudson

    And in a less flippant moment: I completely agree with Trampy. And quiet_flame.

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivingdan View Post
    I am looking to apply to that other Northern MJ organisation who also want me to teach. so we will see. I have no intention of teaching without a formal qualification I just wondered what peoples thoughts were.
    AFAIK the only 'northern' MJ organisations to offer a 'qualification' are Ceroc and Blitz. I don't know of any other MJ organisation North of London that offers a qualification worth the paper its written on. I'd start with finding out exactly why you failed your Ceroc audition. As they no longer focuse totaly (so I'm told) on image/appearance, it may be well they think you don't have what it takes? If you disagree then you are probably going to have to become an unqualified teacher. Fear not. Most of the N West teachers fit that category and manage to get teaching posts (even through one may question their competence )

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    Ceroc Teacher Dan Hudson's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma View Post
    = doesn't look like Dan Hudson

    .
    I hope that was compliment????

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    Heh. I got turned down 4 times by Ceroc, with 3 different franchisees putting me forward. Didn't even get as far as an audition. Now I'm a Ceroc affiliate teacher.
    And I'm a qualified CTA instructor but they won't let me become an affiliate ... go figure Must not fit the figure for affiliates.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivingdan View Post
    I have been told a number of times that I should teach dips and drops,leans seducers etc as they appear to be my specialty. My question to you all is as long as the right insurance etc was in place is it right to teach something if you a) have a natural talent for it
    b) fully understand the need to teach all the relevant safety points
    c) have not completed any formal Modern Jive or other dance teaching course
    Well, it's like any teaching isn't it? "Being good at it" isn't much help, except for demonstration purposes.

    You need to be able to understand, and to communicate your understanding of, whatever you're teaching. Being able to actually do it is, at best, a minor advantage. Being naturally brilliant at Maths, for example, won't make you a good maths teacher.

    And I'd say that, before you can specialise, you need to know the basics. So you probably won't be best placed to teach specialist workshops unless you can teach the other ones. I'm not aware of any specialist teachers who weren't first generalists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivingdan View Post
    I have been asked by a number of venue managers if I would be interested in teaching for CEROC. Unfortunately It appears that I do not fit the profile for what is a male CEROC teacher this days. That was the feeedback that came back after I failed my auditon. You do not fit the profile. Too old, not slim enough and unfortunately I dont look like a male model.
    Ceroc teachers are trained to teach Ceroc, and are selected to be best fitted to the business purposes of Ceroc. Lots and lots of people seem to get turned down several times - I think it's a bit like the driving test that way.

    Persistence usually pays off however - so much so, that I wonder if persistence in the face of adversity is itself a criterion...

    But CTA training, I believe, won't tell you how to teach dancing, it'll tell you how to teach Ceroc moves in a Ceroc environment. You'll learn scripts and moves, I think - and how to do things in the Ceroc Way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jivingdan View Post
    I have no intention of teaching without a formal qualification I just wondered what peoples thoughts were.
    CTA is not much of a formal dance qualification - it's a 4-day course. OK, an intense and difficult 4-day course, but still. Proper dance qualifications take years to obtain - and at the moment, there don't seem to be any MJ dance degrees around.

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    A few links.

    SpinDr.

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    And I'm a qualified CTA instructor but they won't let me become an affiliate ... go figure Must not fit the figure for affiliates.
    You're obviously far to young, slim, fit and good looking for the role!

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Saw this thread again and thought it was pertinent to a number of comments made recently.

    There is, and always will be, dancers who step up from the stage and start teaching. I have faily strong views of this ( ) but as I don't want to get flamed and banned from most clubs in my area I'll keep my own counsel on that. HOWEVER, there is a moot point about how good you have to be to teach.

    When I worked with Blitz I proposed that we created a 'junior instructor' role, between qualified Teachers and taxi dnacers. My original idea was that these guys couod teach beginners as it was 'easier' to teach. Of course, I was massively wrong. Within the usual teaching model, where the second lesson is just teaching a series of moves, this is easier for a 'just dancer' to teach. Teaching beginners (IMHO) requires more understanding of technique ... and this is possible where some of the was-dancer-now-teachers struggle.

    Having said all that, do teachers at all clubs need to be up to the CTA standard (or even aspiring to the highre standard of Rocsters teachers ), or can anyone legitimately call themself a teacher and just get on with it ... and would anyone notice?

    Andy ... think the stage is now set for your contribution ...........

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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr View Post
    A few links.

    SpinDr.
    I noticed that there is a link to our teachers training courses. Now that I've been running the teacher's training courses for a while I've actually removed the page. I've found from experience that some people self-select for the course when they are patently not ready.

    And, my only qualification for the course is that you can do the beginners moves properly. I made this change because I had a guy come on the course who didn't know enough beginners moves to put together a 4 move routine!

    Our teaching course is just for the teaching of beginners. This is, very much, the hardest job. It's relatively easy to teach intermediates: IMHO, teaching intermediates is sharing moves between dancers. It's not really teaching people to dance.

    My advice to anybody who is thinking about teaching is to think again. Be certain why you want to teach. Do you really want to teach people how to dance? Or do you want the, questionable, fame of being up there on the stage? And, my advice in teaching drops and lifts is to go weight training. The repetition of teaching these moves will put a great strain on your body - the repetition of teaching is quite physically demanding without the extra strain of picking a lady up from a drop 100 times during the teaching of your 3 drop routine.

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    Registered User KatieR's Avatar
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    Re: Teaching do you have to be qualified

    I thought I might make comment here, I have started teaching Beginner and Intermediate Modern Jive, however; have no formal training.

    Yes, it is true that with beginners you need to have a lot more patience, and ability to express how the move is done for them to understand. Especially leads who are very new to any form of dance.

    Dancing has never come naturally to me so have had to work very hard at understanding what is needed and required of me to achieve some technical ability and skill to a point where I now feel that I can express the basics with some knowledge as it is how I have had to learn.

    Some would say that I have no business teaching, but I have been told that I have a teaching style that is easily understood and the patience to explain to beginners what is required.

    As I said to someone recently, I'm not trying to create a league of Jordan's and Tatiana's, but I can teach enough so that they can dance well and safely. If they then want to go further, then I would refer them to other teachers, workshops and resources.

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