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Thread: Spinning & Spotting

  1. #21
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    Wow, I just got my first ever negative rep for my initial comment on this thread.
    You clearly upset the Spotty Mafia.

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I'm not sure I follow – spotting means you're going to be less able to see what's going on around you – most of the time you'll be looking at your partner, and when you're not, things will be (should be) even more of a blur.
    It works for me - that instance of relative stillness allows me to get a snapshot of the situation around me, and adjust if required.

    I know that I've avoided problems using this technique - for example, if my partner has assumed I'm just doing a single spin and gets in too close, I can quickly get my arm out of the way to avoid elbowing her in the face.

    That could be just me, of course, everyone else may be able to turn their head and look at things around them easily.

  2. #22
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by Yliander View Post
    ... if a girl has her arm in a position that causes her elbow to be at her eye level it would stick out rather a long way and be rather dangerous
    I guess I haven't clearly expressed the advice given, sorry – I've heard it so many times, I thought it would be a commonly understood piece of wisdom. I guess not.

    The idea is not so much to keep the elbow at eye level or directly in front of the face, but rather it is ensuring the elbow is kept in front of the body, rather than out to the side.

    As suggested to me in a PM, this is indeed related to keeping a good frame during the spin, and is good advice.

    However, I've heard a number of respected teachers say this helps you keep your eye on your elbow, when they themselves undoubtedly spot during spins and so wouldn't be able to see their own elbow.

    I guess for dancers who don't spot, and have trouble keeping frame during spins it is good advice, and once absorbed, the elbow will just always be in the right place, allowing the dancer then to spot her spins without worrying about elbows and frame.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  3. #23
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    I guess I haven't clearly expressed the advice given, sorry – I've heard it so many times, I thought it would be a commonly understood piece of wisdom. I guess not.
    never assume anyone knows anything - to me is is good and bad advice...

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    The idea is not so much to keep the elbow at eye level or directly in front of the face, but rather it is ensuring the elbow is kept in front of the body, rather than out to the side.

    As suggested to me in a PM, this is indeed related to keeping a good frame during the spin, and is good advice.

    However, I've heard a number of respected teachers say this helps you keep your eye on your elbow, when they themselves undoubtedly spot during spins and so wouldn't be able to see their own elbow.

    I guess for dancers who don't spot, and have trouble keeping frame during spins it is good advice, and once absorbed, the elbow will just always be in the right place, allowing the dancer then to spot her spins without worrying about elbows and frame.
    Ok that makes more sense.

    you do want to keep your arm ahead of your body and not out to the side

    However I would think that the suggestion of keeping your eye on your elbow is a stepping stone rather than a permenant thing - being able to see your elbow lets you know that your arm is in the correct position - but once you are comfortable with the position/skill actually sighting your elbow would be no longer needed and IMHO watching your own elbow through a spin is not going to be conductive to dizzy free spinning

  4. #24
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Spotting is not the only way of preventing dizzyness. When was the last time you saw an ice skater spot?

    Your brain gets 2 sources of information when you spin - one from the inner ear, and the other from your eyes. There is not a huge amount you can do about the inner ear, but you can significantly change the information from your eyes.

    If you just start spinning whilst looking out at the room, your eyes reinforce the information from your ears that you are turning round.

    When you spot, you are trying to minimise the amount of time you look at something moving, and maximise when you are looking at something fixed. Your brain then tries to make sense of this conflicting information, and hopefully assumes your head isn't moving.

    However the problem with spotting is that you are moving a large heavy weight (your head) independently of the main part of your body. This makes it very easy to lose balance when you are learning how to do it.

    Another way of not getting dizzy is to look at something that doesn't move as you spin, but without looking down. My only experience of this is when doing a turning lift with Lily. I will typically have one of my arms held above shoulder height that I can see, and I will focus on this as I turn. I don't see why something similar wouldn't work with an assisted turn.

    Also practice helps your brain get used to spinning. Or so I'm told...

    As far as judging goes, spotting would be quite low down on my list. Doing assisted turns and free spins on balance, at a variety of speeds, and a variety of revolutions, would be far more important.

  5. #25
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB View Post
    However the problem with spotting is that you are moving a large heavy weight (your head) independently of the main part of your body. This makes it very easy to lose balance when you are learning how to do it.
    Very helpful to know. I will perservere with learning how to spot now that I know I will have to go through a 'it gets worse before it gets better' phase. I don't think anyone ever told me that, so when it made me dizzier initially and more likely to go off balance, I just thought it wouldn't work for me.

    The key thing I want in spins, and lack at times, is control. Control in balance, timing, direction - if spotting helps me to improve that, then I'll work on it.
    Last edited by Lynn; 4th-September-2006 at 12:10 PM.

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    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    And now I've had my second ever negative rep. Maybe I'll stop stating my honest opinions and just go back to the herd mentality.

    Baaah!

    Nice, though, to read comments from DavidB that seem to agree with what I've been saying to some degree. Strangely, I recall something similar happening last time I got into "me against the world" discussion.

    Oh well...
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  7. #27
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    I think that 'spotting' in the classical "head whipping" style can make dancers look jearky and bird-like. Personally I don't think it looks good because the head movement is out of time with the rest of the body - like a dancer who turns too fast for the beat of the music and has to wait for their partner to catch up.

    I have no idea what I do; look at a point, close my eyes and open them when I'm round I think Will need to find out. For lots of spins and rotations, I either do them in 180º segments so I can watch where I'm going, or try and fix the path I want to take and then focus on my partner while burling and rely on my peripheral vision to avoid collission.

    I think that practice has a great deal to do with it, as does past dance experiance (in my case head-banging; try swurling your head {hair} round in circles for 3 mins without getting dizzy! )

    Other things that I find help are; taking a beat or so to regain ballance before doing another move (step/wrap/walk/pose...); immediatly reversing the turn to unwind (but not as far); coming to a gradual hault rather than an emergency stop.

    I remember seeing an ice skater in a spin where her head went to one side during a fast spin to create a cool shape - that can't be easy! But the fact I've seen it done means I know it can be done (without falling over) so spotting is not essential to good spinning.

  8. #28
    Meglio del Cioccolato Demo
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi View Post
    And now I've had my second ever negative rep. Maybe I'll stop stating my honest opinions and just go back to the herd mentality.
    C'mon Duncan, don't throw your toys out of the pram just because a couple of people disagree so strongly with you to neg. rep you...

    At the end of the day that should be the whole point of it!

  9. #29
    Registered User timbp's Avatar
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    Other things that I find help are; taking a beat or so to regain ballance before doing another move
    I have heard that followers often don't have this option.

    Some leaders apparently expect a sextuple top turn to lead into a complex pretzelly knotty thing.
    Not a problem for me, as I can only lead a sextuple top turn with one follower (about 70% of attempts) and I can't lead any pretzelly knotty things.

  10. #30
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by azande View Post
    C'mon Duncan, don't throw your toys out of the pram just because a couple of people disagree so strongly with you to neg. rep you...
    Don't worry Luca, I don't think I'd make a good sheep anyway.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  11. #31
    Registered User Daisy Chain's Avatar
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    Re: Spinning & Spotting

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    What Freya said.

    Also, been thinking, it sounds odd, but I unfocus my eyes whilst in the actual spin, as it's the watching everything go by really quickly that makes me feel nauseous. So I focus on partner, start spin, unfocus/relax eyes slightly, then as my head comes round, actively look for my lead...
    I do that, but I don't know how I learned to do it. One thing I have noticed is that I always finish facing my partner (unless the helpful soul has moved round my circle). How do I manage this? Is it magic?

    Daisy

    (A Revolutionary Little Flower)

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