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Thread: The role of the Taxi dancer

  1. #101
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gadget
    but to get the most out of lessons, you need to be stretched occasionally.
    Totally agree. When I say "match the demand to the ability", that includes carefully selected things that will stretch them a little.


    so I never interrupt a dance with pointers or tips on following - I just try to lead well. I don't feel obliged to point out any failings or mistakes. I smile, enjoy the music and dance.
    A very sound approach. Mostly mine too. I don't want to give the impression that I'm constantly lecturing on the floor. Even if I'm actually wearing the shirt, mostly I'll just dance with them.

    Chris

  2. #102
    Registered User thewacko's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ChrisA
    A very sound approach. Mostly mine too. I don't want to give the impression that I'm constantly lecturing on the floor. Even if I'm actually wearing the shirt, mostly I'll just dance with them.

    Chris
    i often dance with a beginner especially when wearing "the shirt", and if i do a move the beginner doesn't know (for instance the wurlitzer - a move that if the lady doesn't know she will try and go spinning off into the horizon despite keeping a firm grip on her left hand) even in freestyle, i will stop and explain the move to her - this i do not do as a lecturer, but simply so that should she come up against the same move again she will at least know what to expect, i find the friendly slowly slowly approach often helps the beginner not only to learn moves but to actually enjoy the whole dance. But again there are moves i occaisionaly do to a beginner that i know she will not have a clue what is going on but is so easy to lead, without her being able to do her own thing, the aim of which is to entice her to want more and also to get a laugh more than anything (refer to footnote )

  3. #103
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by thewacko
    i often dance with a beginner especially when wearing "the shirt", and if i do a move the beginner doesn't know (for instance the wurlitzer - a move that if the lady doesn't know she will try and go spinning off into the horizon despite keeping a firm grip on her left hand) even in freestyle, i will stop and explain the move to her - this i do not do as a lecturer, but simply so that should she come up against the same move again she will at least know what to expect, i find the friendly slowly slowly approach often helps the beginner not only to learn moves but to actually enjoy the whole dance. But again there are moves i occaisionaly do to a beginner that i know she will not have a clue what is going on but is so easy to lead, without her being able to do her own thing, the aim of which is to entice her to want more and also to get a laugh more than anything (refer to footnote )
    So what part of this do you imagine I would disagree with?

    Of course -as a taxi, dancing with a beginner, if something needs to be said, say it. And your wurlitzer example is a very good one - not least because of the injury risk as the lady twists away, yanking her left arm painfully behind her back.

    I didn't say "never say anything", I said "I don't want to give the impression that I'm constantly lecturing on the floor". Not quite the same thing. Though it remains the case that - in general - too many blokes who think they know what they're talking about spend too much time attempting to teach new beginners, when they should be spending their time dancing sensitively with them.

    Chris

  4. #104
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    Originally posted by thewacko
    i often dance with a beginner especially when wearing "the shirt", and if i do a move the beginner doesn't know (for instance the wurlitzer - a move that if the lady doesn't know she will try and go spinning off into the horizon despite keeping a firm grip on her left hand) even in freestyle, i will stop and explain the move to her - this i do not do as a lecturer, but simply so that should she come up against the same move again she will at least know what to expect, i find the friendly slowly slowly approach often helps the beginner not only to learn moves but to actually enjoy the whole dance. But again there are moves i occaisionaly do to a beginner that i know she will not have a clue what is going on but is so easy to lead, without her being able to do her own thing, the aim of which is to entice her to want more and also to get a laugh more than anything (refer to footnote )
    I do not believe that the Wurlitzer should be a beginner move. It is enough to teach a beginner that a flat hand means spin without having to burden her with an exception so soon.

    I too take beginners into moves that they cannot help but follow and explain that that was not a beginner move. This boosts their confidence - already they can do moves that are not beginner moves. The Wurlitzer invariably undoes that good work. I too do the occasional fun move, the basket peek-a-boo (whatever its real name is) If nothing else it convinces the beginner that is worrying about what people are thinking about her that some of us are mad, and it does not matter what we think.

  5. #105
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    Originally posted by thewacko
    for a new beginner, even the most simple of moves is complex, so are you saying that on their first night the taxi dancer should only do the first 4 moves of that nights routine. If so I disagree, as (hopefully) would some of the beginers I have danced with, as I dance them through other beginner moves and some of the simplest intermediate moves as well, not to show off, but to entice them into knowing what else they can do. Even though they do not know the moves or even the signals for the moves, it shows them how easy the can be lead, and also puts (i hope) a bit of fun into the dance instead of boringly going through the moves they have just learnt
    I am with you on this, although I vary my approach to suit the beginner. (I guess you do too) At the hopeless end of the scale I once just took a beginner through the four moves of the lesson repeatedly, hoping that she would eventually do one right, and was rewarded with "you don't know many moves, do you?"
    At the other end of the scale I just led a beginner in a fast rock and roll number just like she had been doing it for years, seeing that she had the talent to follow, and enjoy.

    Mostly I find beginners are tensed up trying to remember the mechanics of the moves so that they can do them without being led. I sometimes get an alarmed "I don't know that move", to which I reply "You've just done it." and explain that Ceroc is about leading and following, and she has the talent to follow. Partner usually realises that I know what I am doing and relaxes very quickly

  6. #106
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    The Wurlitzer invariably undoes that good work.
    Often this is the case. It doesn't have to be led with a strong flat left hand though.

    It's just as easy, instead of dancing it the way Ceroc teaches it, to get to the flat left hand, and then do most of the work yourself - a tiny hint only with the guy's left (so very little lady turn out, since she can't confuse it with the lead for a push spin), then guy's right hand first towards the guy and to the left to draw the lady across to prepare for the flick spin. It's then 100% safe.

    By the time you even think of a wurlitzer with a new beginner (agree 100% with you there BigD), you should know if she's the type to leap (sic) rather than follow.

    Sorry, but if the lady throws herself out too hard and ends up in a vicious half nelson, risking shoulder dislocation, it is unequivocally 100% the guy's fault for taking the chance.

    Chris

  7. #107
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    just like she had been doing it for years, seeing that she had the talent to follow, and enjoy.
    Ain't that the case, though.

    Last night at Hipsters there was a woman looking a bit bemused at Amir's choreographed routine - she says to me, "this isn't at all what I was expecting, I've never done this before".

    Alarmed, I say "You're a beginner?" She says, "Well, I've done two Ceroc classes".

    Zoikes, I think... damage limitation required... "Don't worry, this will seem quite hard, but it's an advanced class. Come and dance with me between the classes...

    She did, and she was totally awesome. I could tell she hadn't been jiving for long but she was fab. After quickly realising that she could follow pretty much anything (I was very careful, built it up a bit at a time), and having a couple of really nice dances with her, I said, "Ok, so what other dancing have you done?"

    She denied any dancing at all... maybe she was lying but it was quite extraordinary all the same. She also had no trouble with Nigel's class.

    Chris

  8. #108
    The Oracle
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    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    I am with you on this, although I vary my approach to suit the beginner.
    If I'm dancing with someone I've never met before, I have no idea if they are a beginner, a 'dance god', or anything in between. I just lead whatever she seems to be able to follow. I would find it difficult to restrict myself to beginner moves, because I've forgotten which ones they are.

    Originally posted by thewacko
    the wurlitzer
    I didn't know what a Wurlitzer was until I looked at Jiveoholic's Database. Am I the only person who leads this move with my right hand? All I do with my left hand is let go.

    David

  9. #109
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DavidB
    Am I the only person who leads this move with my right hand? All I do with my left hand is let go.

    David
    Quite so.

    As I said:


    It's just as easy, instead of dancing it the way Ceroc teaches it, to get to the flat left hand, and then do most of the work yourself - a tiny hint only with the guy's left (so very little lady turn out, since she can't confuse it with the lead for a push spin), then guy's right hand first towards the guy and to the left to draw the lady across to prepare for the flick spin. It's then 100% safe.
    Chris

  10. #110
    The Oracle
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    Sorry Chris - I misread what you said :sorry :sorry

  11. #111
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DavidB
    Sorry Chris - I misread what you said :sorry :sorry
    My fault, no doubt. I should have been more succinct. Sorry!

    (but it was nice to discover that I'm not alone )

    Chris

  12. #112
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    Originally posted by ChrisA
    By the time you even think of a wurlitzer with a new beginner (agree 100% with you there BigD), you should know if she's the type to leap (sic) rather than follow.
    I've never had a problem with leading a beginner in this move - hardest part is sometimes getting her to let go on the flick-spin (but then you just wrap-in instead).

    The worst one I find is the yo-yo-pushspin {R to R, step in side to side, fold arm, open to rotate lady, take back to elbow-elbow with flat hand, push down into freespin}. They just can't get the "rotate" bit unless it's been demoed (or I see they can't get it and compare it to a 1st move where I can use the off-hand to help lead)
    Alternativly, if the {name? straight yo-yo?} has been demoed (...one where you fold to a flat hand and arc the lady out into a free-spin...) it's hard to get them to feel for the diference; I sometimes use a slight 'grip' on her fingers during the turn-out if she's eluded the lead the first time.

  13. #113
    Registered User thewacko's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ChrisA
    [B]So what part of this do you imagine I would disagree with? {B}

    :sorry i am not saying you would disagree!

    Of course -as a taxi, dancing with a beginner, if something needs to be said, say it. And your wurlitzer example is a very good one - not least because of the injury risk as the lady twists away, yanking her left arm painfully behind her back.

    I didn't say "never say anything", I said "I don't want to give the impression that I'm constantly lecturing on the floor". Not quite the same thing. Though it remains the case that - in general - too many blokes who think they know what they're talking about spend too much time attempting to teach new beginners, when they should be spending their time dancing sensitively with them.

    Chris
    I totally agree here, the tact to take is not to teach on the dance floor but cater for the needs of the beginner, not for the needs of the male dancer - taxi or otherwise

  14. #114
    Registered User thewacko's Avatar
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    ZOICKS

    I only mentioned the wurlitzer as an example of a difficult beginners move that be easily mis read by the beginner lady


    Originally posted by bigdjiver
    I do not believe that the Wurlitzer should be a beginner move. It is enough to teach a beginner that a flat hand means spin without having to burden her with an exception so soon.
    how can the wurlitzer be a beginners move and the twiddly diddly (double return to those who don't recognize the name) be an intermediate move

  15. #115
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    Originally posted by thewacko
    how can the wurlitzer be a beginners move and the twiddly diddly (double return to those who don't recognize the name) be an intermediate move
    I never understood the line between "beginner" and "intermediate" moves: I have seen almost a complete beginner's class being taught as 'one move' in the intermediate class (OK, so the returns were missed out...)

  16. #116
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gadget
    I never understood the line between "beginner" and "intermediate" moves:
    There is no line. But that's not the point. The beginners moves are just 20-odd easy-ish moves which act as an introduction and form a basis for the variations. They're taught (approximately) in rotation, with some overlap, so that new people can come to a set of classes and learn them all in a relatively short time, while at the same time allowing irregular attenders to have a high chance of not repeating all the same stuff as they last saw.

    Some of the things that are a building block might not necessarily be the very easiest, or indeed easier than anything you'd do in an intermediate class - although for the most part they are.


    I have seen almost a complete beginner's class being taught as 'one move' in the intermediate class (OK, so the returns were missed out...)
    What part of "intermediate" don't you understand?

    Don't worry - as time goes by, the intermediate classes unaccountably do get easier :-)

    Chris

  17. #117
    Registered User thewacko's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ChrisA


    What part of "intermediate" don't you understand?

    Don't worry - as time goes by, the intermediate classes unaccountably do get easier :-)

    Chris
    ooh catty


  18. #118
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Originally posted by thewacko
    ooh catty
    I didn't mean it like that - it's just that the intermediate classes are _supposed_ to be harder. No one would go to them if they weren't.

    If they're difficult, go to more of them, then they'll get less difficult over time.

    Duhh...

    Chris

  19. #119
    Registered User thewacko's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ChrisA
    I didn't mean it like that - it's just that the intermediate classes are _supposed_ to be harder. No one would go to them if they weren't.

    If they're difficult, go to more of them, then they'll get less difficult over time.

    Duhh...

    Chris
    I know what you mean - about 18 months ago I used to go to Fulham and tried to participate in Victors intermediate classes, invariably this involved me leaving the class and heading towards the bar in utter frustration.

    I would now love to go, infact I beleive he's now at Hipsters or something, and try his classes again - I am going to give it a try in a few weeks time, and hopefully I may hopefully be able to complete a class rather than just one of his moves


  20. #120
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    Originally posted by ChrisA
    What part of "intermediate" don't you understand?
    Don't worry - as time goes by, the intermediate classes unaccountably do get easier :-)
    Erm... I think you missunderstood: what I mean is that most "intermediate" moves are just a collection of "beginner" moves strung together - I would class these as "beginner" moves as well (but needing a better memory).

    "Intermediate" to me involves spliceing moves or using body leads or tying knots with your arms...

    I don't think that I have encountered an intermediate move that I've struggled with {yet } - I have encountered a several moves that the lady trys to lead from what they have seen on stage, as opposed to what I'm leading {That sounds wrong: I am leading the move shown on stage, but they are just moving where they think they should be, regardless of what I'm doing}

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