The role of the Taxi dancer

[thewacko]

Originally posted by Chris
[B

Secondly, taxi dancing is a learning curve IMO. People start taxiing and all sorts of things can go wrong, even with the best candidates. Sometimes people think that cos they're asked to taxi they must have reached a certain level, or their ideas are special, or they're better than other dancers of similar ability; they sometimes want to teach beginners everything they know, or lord it over people, or just use it as an excuse to skive off and get in free. Mostly these problems - if they happen at all, and mostly they don't - but mostly they go away of their own accord and with encouragement and more help from the franchisee or other staff members. Occasionally they become a pain!
[/B]

as well as taxiing! with taz, another lady I taxi with freely admits that she is not the best dancer in the world (but I have to say she is much better than she realises) but she does know all the beginners moves, which is the main reason she is a taxi dancer.

phew I thought i was going to have to go back to the smoking debate as everyone here seems to agree with each other

[Tazmanian Devil]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thewacko
:I have taxied at Charlton and now also at Greenwich, and find that the "punters" in most cases need putting at ease, especially the very new ones.

I always start the session by telling them that they are not going to get an intense class like they have just had with the teacher, and here is where my line comes from:"Rule no. 1 Ceroc is Fun".

I will try and have a laugh with them whilst guiding them, wherever possible, but it is up to the individual taxi dancer to help the student dancers the way they feel fit, as each session can be completely different dependant on how new the dancers are and what sort of people they are . . . am I rambling or what!

naa not yet you aint had a drink yet!!!

Originally posted by thewacko
:after all we taxi dancers are not teachers but elder brothers ( especially big bro who got knocked back by london ceroc ).

Bless him I think that was age discrimination myself but thats an other thread all together!!

[thewacko]

Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
Bless him I think that was age discrimination myself but thats an other thread all together!!

but as he is my elder bro, and god knows I'm old enough as it is, I am surely allowed to be agist is that a word!

i dont want next monday to come i'm only 18

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally posted by Gadget
I think I know what you're getting at: A beginner lady can dance with almost any man of any ability and still have a good dance.

Im sorry I must disagree with you there some beginner ladys are just so tense it don't matter how well you lead they still don't go/do what you wanted them to do!! Although it doesn't really matter cause if the man is a good enough lead he can still make it look good.

I have been dancing for about 2 years now and being as I picked it up quite easily i have been doing the mens moves as well for just over a year. A lot of women ask me for a dance as they like the way I lead. I am very confident but still can't seem to get one or two in particular beginner ladys to just relax their arms at least!!

[thewacko]

Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
Im sorry I must disagree with you there some beginner ladys are just so tense it don't matter how well you lead they still don't go/do what you wanted them to do!! Although it doesn't really matter cause if the man is a good enough lead he can still make it look good

having danced with Taz i must agree
no caps in this reply does that mean i am whispering

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Tazmanian Devil
Im sorry I must disagree with you there

Why are you sorry? this would be an awfly boring forum if we all agreed

some beginner ladys are just so tense it don't matter how well you lead they still don't go/do what you wanted them to do!! ~snip~ I am very confident but still can't seem to get one or two in particular beginner ladys to just relax their arms at least!!

I admit that I have had a couple of beginner ladys that are more difficult to lead (stiff arms, spagetti arms and roots included), but I'm sure that if you ask them after your dance if they have enjoyed it, I'm 99% convinced that they will say yes; it may not have been a "good" dance for you, but it will have been for them.

I still stand by my statement that A beginner lady can dance with almost any man of any ability and still have a good dance.

[thewacko]

Originally posted by Gadget


I admit that I have had a couple of beginner ladys that are more difficult to lead (stiff arms, spagetti arms and roots included), but I'm sure that if you ask them after your dance if they have enjoyed it, I'm 99% convinced that they will say yes; it may not have been a "good" dance for you, but it will have been for them.
[/B]

i agree with you here, sometimes it is murder dancing with a new lady who doesn't know what they or you are doing, they can spin off in all directions (if they can spin) or are like dancing with brick walls who hardly move - BUT - the looks on their faces when they have finished is magical, I may not have enjoyed the dance as much as when I dance with a more experienced lady, but the gratification I get when i see how much the beginner lady has enjoyed the dance can much more than make up for it
so a difficult dance but a magical ending

[Graham]

Originally posted by Gadget
I still stand by my statement that A beginner lady can dance with almost any man of any ability and still have a good dance.

I completely disagree. Regardless of the quality of the lead there are myriad reasons why a beginner follower might not enjoy the dance - he might be too snooty, too smelly, too sleazy, and as Taz said she may just be too tense to really enjoy it no matter what he does.

And purely on dance ability, when I watch a beginner lady dancing with a man who can't lead well, she generally doesn't look as if it's the best thing that's ever happened to her.

[thewacko]

Originally posted by Graham
I completely disagree. Regardless of the quality of the lead there are myriad reasons why a beginner follower might not enjoy the dance - he might be too snooty, too smelly, too sleazy, and as Taz said she may just be too tense to really enjoy it no matter what he does.

And purely on dance ability, when I watch a beginner lady dancing with a man who can't lead well, she generally don't look as if it's the best thing that's ever happened to her.

i begining to wonder about me know all I seem to do is agree with everyone on this thread

I beleive I was thinking of a beginner lady dancing with a more experienced dancer and enjoying the dance, any lady dancer may not enjoy dancing with a beginner man, due to his lack of experience and not being able to lead but hey give the guys a break we all were at that stage once and the magical part of ceroc was learning to dance with all classes of lady, from beginner to experienced

remembering back to when I first started, i mainly danced with beginners as i got to know them in the taxi classes and part of the learning element was learning together

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally posted by thewacko
having danced with Taz i must agree

Whats that supposed to mean?????

[Tazmanian Devil]

Originally posted by Graham
I completely disagree. Regardless of the quality of the lead there are myriad reasons why a beginner follower might not enjoy the dance - he might be too snooty, too smelly, too sleazy, and as Taz said she may just be too tense to really enjoy it no matter what he does.

And purely on dance ability, when I watch a beginner lady dancing with a man who can't lead well, she generally doesn't look as if it's the best thing that's ever happened to her.

I have to agree with you there Graham. I know a few men who have been dancing as long or even longer than me and they are terrible leads. I don't enjoy dancing with them let alone the poor beginners that get their arms pulled out of their sockets!!

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Graham
I completely disagree. Regardless of the quality of the lead there are myriad reasons why a beginner follower might not enjoy the dance...

I think that you were reading it incorrectly; the statement was derived from prior discussion where it was stated that a beginner lady must dance with a more advanced lead before she could have a "good" dance.
{Also note the escape clauses }
A beginner lady can dance with almost any man of any ability and still have a good dance.

On another point; "quality of lead" is not all that makes a good dance - music, timing, connection, style, ... all have roles to play and are all part of the dancer's ability. A good lead is just the ability to guide the lady where you want them - not necissaraly where they would like to be or how they would prefer to get there.

On Taz's point; I think that a bad lead could be worse for their partner than a bad follower.

{NOTE: by "Bad" I don't mean inexperianced or a beginner - I mean someone who is unwilling to learn or change the way they dance through a song.}

[Graham]

Originally posted by Gadget
I think that you were reading it incorrectly; the statement was derived from prior discussion where it was stated that a beginner lady must dance with a more advanced lead before she could have a "good" dance.

No, I think you were writing it incorrectly. The way it is stated suggests that a beginner lady can enjoy a good dance with the vast majority of men ("almost any man of any ability"), and I simply don't think this is true. The point you then go on to defend is that a beginner lady might enjoy a good dance with someone of limited experience - this is certainly possible, but so what? On average she is going to get a better dance with a better dancer, and what's more a good lead will give her much more confidence in her own dancing ability.

I'd be interested in a female view, but my impression is that for a beginner, musicality and style are not as important as the lead, simply because they are concentrating a lot on their following. In my opinion, they are really better enjoyed once you're reasonably comfortable with the basics (which isn't to say that the beginners can't see/appreciate musicality and style, just that it's probably not the most important thing).

[Forte]

I agree with Graham...a brilliant male dancer does not always make a good lead for an intermediate female...A good lead is strong and safe and will attempt new things (for the lady) but in a way that is smooth and encouraging. Too many daring moves just makes the woman feel inadequate and clumsy. A really good dancer who wants to be a good lead will actually hold himslef back a little for a less able female dancer and concentrate on making her feel good and have fun. She will come off the floor feeling she danced well but danced MORE than she has before , too.

[bigdjiver]

I have seen couples come to their first evening together, miss the lesson, or sit it out, and then try and do their own thing. Regardless of any outsiders view of lack of quality in their "dance" they usually enjoy themselves immensely.

[Graham]

Originally posted by bigdjiver
I have seen couples come to their first evening together, miss the lesson, or sit it out, and then try and do their own thing. Regardless of any outsiders view of lack of quality in their "dance" they usually enjoy themselves immensely.

My experience is somewhat different - most people I've seen doing this have looked frustrated and confused. In fact the only people I can remember having seen getting immense enjoyment were people who were having a great time laughing at each other's mistakes! But I'm not sure that really counts as "enjoying a great dance"!

[Forte]

I have a friend who appeared in the Glasgow class this week out of the blue. He is a complete beginner to ceroc. he took part in the beginners class and then duriing the freestyle the taxi dancer gave him a few dances. I then sat out the intermediate class and went over the four moves over and over again with him ..then in freestyle the taxi dancer and the teacher gave him a few dances. By the end of the night he was really moving with the music. It was fab to see...but he got a lot of attention and I think beginners need that. He'll be back I am sure...I don't think taxi dancers should ever underestimate the impact they can make...

[thewacko]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bigdjiver
I have seen couples come to their first evening together, miss the lesson, or sit it out, and then try and do their own thing. Regardless of any outsiders view of lack of quality in their "dance" they usually enjoy themselves immensely.
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In my experience, it tends to be single people who tend to come and watch rather than join in, simply because they need to pluck up enough courage to join in. Any couples who come tend to join in simply because they can join the class, but stand back without changing partners if need be [ this practice is not recommended ] and then they tend to struggle a bit because they didn't join the line up and neither of them have got the moves

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Graham
The way it is stated suggests that a beginner lady can enjoy a good dance with the vast majority of men ("almost any man of any ability"), and I simply don't think this is true.
If this is a falicy, then it would suggest that the majority of dances a lady has are not very good. I find it hard to believe that ladies would return week after week if most of their dances were poor:
Is one "good" dance a night sufficient to come back for?

On average she {beginner lady} is going to get a better dance with a better dancer, and what's more a good lead will give her much more confidence in her own dancing ability.
True, but this is not limited to beginners - anyone who dances with a better dancer will normally get a better dance {assuming you don't clash}. But this does not mean that you cannot get a good dance with someone of lesser ability.

for a beginner, musicality and style are not as important as the lead, simply because they are concentrating a lot on their following.
Not for the beginner follower, no. But they are skills that can help define the ability of the lead and make the lead smoother for the follower - the smoother the lead, the less they have to concentrate, the more relaxed they become, the easier following becomes and they enjoy the music/dance more.

Forte: If a lead does 101 daring, complicated and flashey moves with a beginner, then they are not a brilliant dancer; no matter what their ego says.
These people have forgotten one thing - it's a partner dance; you dance with your partner, not at them or using them {*}. Dancing should be fun - first and foremost. A little bit of challenge and excitement to inspire, but not at the expense of the "fun" bit.

{*} - unless they ask nicely

[Graham]

Originally posted by Gadget
[musicality and style] are skills that can help define the ability of the lead and make the lead smoother for the follower

Not in my opinion. I believe that good leading is what makes the lead smoother. It's possible to lead smoothly without any great level of musical interpretation or interesting style, and it's also possible to have bags of musicality and style and be a poor lead.

Just to be clear, when I've been referring to musicality I haven't meant simply keeping to the beat - obviously not doing so is unlikely to result in a "good" dance for the follower!