Hand luggage

[Lynn]

Whoever is picking you up could always check with the airport for delays before setting off to pick you up. You shouldn't be switching on your plane until you've been through passport control anyway, so you could call them as soon as you collect your luggage.

I don't turn my phone on on the plane and usually by the time I have landed whoever is going to collect me will already have left home. I do usually call before I board the plane - you know how it goes, flight is on time when you check in, then 10 mins before you are due to board they announce a 20 min delay, then an hour... I can call ahead before I board to confirm time.

If someone is being kind enough to collect me, I don't want them to have to start trying to ring the airport for delays. I'm sure there are plenty of payphones in the departure lounge though, I'll just have to make sure I have enough change. Or wait till I have collected my luggage, call them, then wait for 1/2 an hour extra till they arrive.

OK, so its all b****y irritating, all seems a little extreme, but instead of giving the people who are trying to protect us from harm a hard time for bringing in these extreme levels of security, why not direct the anger at those who deserve it, those who are trying to kill innocent people, and allow those who are trying to protect us to just get on with their jobs!

I understand its for security and a good reason! I don't mind too much for short flights, with the waiting after check in and flight itself (bearing in mind that check in will now need to be earlier as everyone will need to check in luggage, even after things have settled down) so for a 45 min trip its really only about 3 hours with just me and my purse & passport. But for holidays, bearing in mind the number of pieces of luggage that go astray...

Does anyone know if the checked on luggage allowance will increase?

[TiggsTours]

I don't turn my phone on on the plane and usually by the time I have landed whoever is going to collect me will already have left home. I do usually call before I board the plane - you know how it goes, flight is on time when you check in, then 10 mins before you are due to board they announce a 20 min delay, then an hour... I can call ahead before I board to confirm time.

They don't have to phone anyone, teletext have a very good page dedicated purely to flight arrivals in the UK, you can check if a flight is delayed from the comfort of your own home, without having to leave your sofa, or it costing you anything. That's what I've always done when I've agreed to be picking someone up from the airport anyway. When I used to live in Brighton, and it took 30 - 45 mins to drive to Gatwick, I used to leave my house as soon as teletext told me the flight had landed, by the time I got to the airport, they usually appeared in the arrivals lounge about 5 - 10 mins later, after going through passport control and baggage collection.

[Dreadful Scathe]

I so surely the procedures they have to go through would make the public feel more secure on their journey.

uh huh being suspicious of everyone around you is quite empowering

Yes - these terrorists have got some power over how we live now, but in some ways, we need to try and get on with things and stick together so that they don't completely have control over us.

In some ways? which ways? "locking down" society so they dont have complete control over us?....er...no hang on that cant be right...

sticking together is a good idea though - as long as i know you personally of course, or you have ID and arent carrying a bag of any kind, or are wearing a big coat, or you "look foreign" or walk funny or...

[Feelingpink]

They don't have to phone anyone, teletext have a very good page dedicated purely to flight arrivals in the UK, you can check if a flight is delayed from the comfort of your own home, without having to leave your sofa, or it costing you anything. That's what I've always done when I've agreed to be picking someone up from the airport anyway. When I used to live in Brighton, and it took 30 - 45 mins to drive to Gatwick, I used to leave my house as soon as teletext told me the flight had landed, by the time I got to the airport, they usually appeared in the arrivals lounge about 5 - 10 mins later, after going through passport control and baggage collection.

I guess with Lynn being the person she is, she wants to inconvenience her hosts as little as possible and expecting them to monitor Teletext (assuming they have it - not everyone does) or on-line arrivals websites is perhaps something she would rather than not 'have' to do.

[TiggsTours]

I guess with Lynn being the person she is, she wants to inconvenience her hosts as little as possible and expecting them to monitor Teletext (assuming they have it - not everyone does) or on-line arrivals websites is perhaps something she would rather than not 'have' to do.

Funny, I personally prefer it, flights can be delayed en-route too.

[Freya]

Just watching the news and one lady made a very good point!

"Their just getting us to put our stuff in our luggage to check in. their not actually checking it. so if you've got a bomb in your hand luggage then it's now in your suitcase and still on the plane!"

But I guess what their trying to stop is people making bombs on the plane or bringing on detinators!

[Lynn]

I guess with Lynn being the person she is, she wants to inconvenience her hosts as little as possible and expecting them to monitor Teletext (assuming they have it - not everyone does) or on-line arrivals websites is perhaps something she would rather than not 'have' to do.

Yep. Not everyone will be collecting me from home and will have other things to be doing than checking the TV. Its up to me to let them know. But we'll get used to it I guess.

My point was really that this was one way not having a phone would inconvenience me, personally. I guess businessmen, who use the hour or so sitting at an airport to make calls, do paperwork etc, will be more inconvenienced.

[TiggsTours]

Just watching the news and one lady made a very good point!

"Their just getting us to put our stuff in our luggage to check in. their not actually checking it. so if you've got a bomb in your hand luggage then it's now in your suitcase and still on the plane!"

But I guess what their trying to stop is people making bombs on the plane or bringing on detinators!

When you check luggage in, it is scanned before it is put on the plane (or else this would have always been an issue), you just don't see it being scanned. Once you put your hand luggage into your suitcase to be checked in, it will then (obviously) be scanned as well.

[David Bailey]

We live in a complex and fragile society - planes are just the most high-profile targets. There are hundreds of other ways people congregate in large numbers in small areas, whether stationary or moving. Ultimately if some people are motivated enough and smart enough, they'll get through - you can't guard everywhere at every time, especially for home-grown terrorism. And I can't see us ever banning public groupings of more than, say, 3 people.

Security measures, any security measures, are at best only short-term actions which may address the symptoms of the problem, at some cost in other areas such as "target community" involvement and civil rights.

The cause of the problem can (IMO) only ever be dealt with by negotiation, dialog, education and lots of other low-profile, long-term, undramatic measures.

Of course, running programmes of "low-profile, long-term, undramatic measures" are not exactly what politicians are best at.

[Freya]

When you check luggage in, it is scanned before it is put on the plane (or else this would have always been an issue), you just don't see it being scanned. Once you put your hand luggage into your suitcase to be checked in, it will then (obviously) be scanned as well.

Do they not scan your hand luggage too! you know when you go through to departures! I'm guessing similar machines are used?

[Donna]

Just watching the news and one lady made a very good point!

"Their just getting us to put our stuff in our luggage to check in. their not actually checking it. so if you've got a bomb in your hand luggage then it's now in your suitcase and still on the plane!"

But I guess what their trying to stop is people making bombs on the plane or bringing on detinators!

You're luggage is scanned as well, but it makes me wonder - if some of these terrorists can get away with carrying explosive devices in their hand luggage which sometimes can't be traced, then what earth might be under our feet when in mid-flight?

[Feelingpink]

When you check luggage in, it is scanned before it is put on the plane (or else this would have always been an issue), you just don't see it being scanned. Once you put your hand luggage into your suitcase to be checked in, it will then (obviously) be scanned as well.

I would have thought ... but have just been on photographers' forum and one of the guys there said that in the US, seven out of 10 bags are x-ray screened and about one in 20 bags for domestic or international travel is scanned for an explosive. This was from a guy who spent several years photographing airport security measures.

[TiggsTours]

Do they not scan your hand luggage too! you know when you go through to departures! I'm guessing similar machines are used?

Yes, of course they do, but this whole thing is about the fact you can't take hand luggage now, what you were saying is that this woman was suggesting that hand luggage now won't be scanned as it is being checked in, I was pointing out that checked in luggage is also scanned.

[Twirly]

Well it's one answer to global warming - make everyone too damned scared to fly!

[Freya]

Yes, of course they do, but this whole thing is about the fact you can't take hand luggage now, what you were saying is that this woman was suggesting that hand luggage now won't be scanned as it is being checked in, I was pointing out that checked in luggage is also scanned.

erm no I don't think I was! What she was implying was that it went through the same checks packed in your lugage as it does when in your hand lugage! So whats the point!


Which infact might make it easier to place a bomb! When going through with my palm top the security always make me turn it on to check that it will actually switch on! and is not some sort of device! surely if it's packed in my luggage then they won't be able to check?

[Chef]

Just watching the news and one lady made a very good point!

"Their just getting us to put our stuff in our luggage to check in. their not actually checking it. so if you've got a bomb in your hand luggage then it's now in your suitcase and still on the plane!"

But I guess what their trying to stop is people making bombs on the plane or bringing on detinators!

I think the idea about getting everything in the baggage hold is as follows.

The baggage hold is not pressurised so if a bomb does rupture the aircrafts skin then there is not a sudden depressurisation which would increase the damage to the craft and passengers.

.

Since Lockerbie, bomb resistant bagage containers were introduced and a small device can be contained within them with the energy of the blast being absorbed by the other luggage and the deformation of the container. Tests have shown that a small device would not cause a breach of the aircrafts skin.

To evade detection the various components of the bomb could be smuggled on board as innocous items and then assembled into the bomb on board. By making everything go in the baggae hold you force the bomber to assemble the device before it is loaded. An assmbled bomb is easier to recognise on x-ray than the components and you also ensure that the bomber has to be on the same aircraft as their luggage. This last point is not a deterent to most bombers these days as they are quite willing to die if they can take others with them.

If the bomber can get a bomb or parts of a bomb into the cabin then they have the choice of where the bomb is detonated and they would most naturally choose the most vunerable spot such as over the main fuselage fuel tank or flight deck. By ensureing that any potential bomb is in the hold you remove the choice of where the bomb is placed. The bomber would then have to make, assemble, and prime a bigger bomb to ensure destruction of the aircraft and this would increase the chances of the bombs detection.

For any countermeasure that we come up with to foil these bombers then they will find another way or another target and we will find countermeasures for that as well. So it goes on with move and countermove. Like water in a stream - every rock we place in its way it will find a way to flow around. We just have to face the fact that some people, somewhere, somehow will get hurt or killed when the advantage swings briefly towards the bombers side

[Lynn]

I feel really sorry for anyone travelling today - esp via a London airport. Its seems that almost all Belfast - London flights have been cancelled today, a colleague flying tomorrow is worried as she has various tickets bought for events for a weekend in London and now may not get there. And various holiday flights have been cancelled. (Hope my flight tomorrow isn't cancelled!)

Anyone have any idea how long this might last? Is it a temporary measure? The news I just heard said 'until further notice'.

[ElaineB]

My daughter is travelling into Birmingham tonight I couldn't care less if the flight is delayed and I have to wait even a whole day. I couldn't are less if her baggage ends up being stolen! I just want her back ....and safe!


Elaine

[s9691]

My daughter is travelling into Birmingham tonight I couldn't care less if the flight is delayed and I have to wait even a whole day. I couldn't are less if her baggage ends up being stolen! I just want her back ....and safe!


Elaine

I'm with you on that Elaine.

My children are flying out on holiday with their dad tomorrow...

I'm glad all the security measures are in place - but why do I still feel sick at the thought of them going...

Sara

[TiggsTours]

erm no I don't think I was! What she was implying was that it went through the same checks packed in your lugage as it does when in your hand lugage! So whats the point!


Which infact might make it easier to place a bomb! When going through with my palm top the security always make me turn it on to check that it will actually switch on! and is not some sort of device! surely if it's packed in my luggage then they won't be able to check?

Ah, I see. Then I guess the difference is that you can't get access to it, once its in the hold, so you can't construct and detonate a device. I would imagine that devices that detonate on their own are far more superior, and are therefore probably far easier to pick up on a scanner.