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Thread: Buying a laptop - advice needed

  1. #21
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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi
    Well if you actually compared the MacBook with a similar product that has the same Core Duo processor, a decent amount of memory and disk space, you'd find that it's priced quite competitively.
    You are quite wrong From a geek perspective you are quite right but from a realistic perspective i.e. usefulness to Lynn, which is what i was thinking of - they are comparable. Will Lynn notice the "duo processor" when typing into a normal word document? Will more than 512mb be apparant when printing? if 40gb is enough to store everything lynn needs, is 300gb going to be "worth it" ?

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    You are quite wrong From a geek perspective you are quite right but from a realistic perspective i.e. usefulness to Lynn, which is what i was thinking of - they are comparable.
    I'm not saying you're wrong, just wouldn't ever say that that cheap Acer is a "similar product" to a MacBook. It's more than just a prettier computer – it's a better computer, inside and out.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    You're missing my point. They are both portable, both have a screen, both have a keyboard and they both run programs Lynn would use fast enough for her to not notice the difference - its up to Lynn to decide if one is "better".

    This is user experience we're talking here not technical specifications. If you only ever drive to the shops, would you buy a Citreon or a Ferrari ? Which one is "better" for that?

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    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    This is user experience we're talking here not technical specifications. If you only ever drive to the shops, would you buy a Citreon or a Ferrari ? Which one is "better" for that?
    Ah, in that case, definitely the mac... Not having to worry about virus protection, a very simple user interface and simpler 'out of the box' setup means that Lynn would be able to do twice as much with the mac in half the time, without having to ask for help from pc gurus every 2 minutes...
    Also, all the software that comes with the mac is high-quality and well supported. She won't have to delete dozens of 'free' software with pesky reminders to register every time she boots up!

    It might not be worth the £300 to her, but to everyone who has made the switch and experienced the mac's ease of use, they'll never buy 'cheap' again!
    Franck.

    There's an A.P.P. for that!

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck
    Ah, in that case, definitely the mac... Not having to worry about virus protection, a very simple user interface and simpler 'out of the box' setup means that Lynn would be able to do twice as much with the mac in half the time, without having to ask for help from pc gurus every 2 minutes...
    Also, all the software that comes with the mac is high-quality and well supported. She won't have to delete dozens of 'free' software with pesky reminders to register every time she boots up!

    It might not be worth the £300 to her, but to everyone who has made the switch and experienced the mac's ease of use, they'll never buy 'cheap' again!

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck
    Ah, in that case, definitely the mac... Not having to worry about virus protection, a very simple user interface and simpler 'out of the box' setup means that Lynn would be able to do twice as much with the mac in half the time, without having to ask for help from pc gurus every 2 minutes...
    Also, all the software that comes with the mac is high-quality and well supported. She won't have to delete dozens of 'free' software with pesky reminders to register every time she boots up!

    It might not be worth the £300 to her, but to everyone who has made the switch and experienced the mac's ease of use, they'll never buy 'cheap' again!
    not biased at all are you You'd make a good car salesman "Yes Sir buy the Ferrari. I know you only use it to run your kids to school, but its so much more comfortable and a much smoother drive. And look! its RED!".

    Of course, if money were no object - I'd agree with you wholeheartedly, I prefer the look of a MAC and I like OSX, and for new users it is much easier in my opinion. Saying that, viruses are not an issue on PCs if you have any common sense - virus checkers and firewalls are free and you will only have trouble with a PC if you install lots of poor software willy-nilly. The MAC has, overall, less quality software than a PC but it is true that the PC has a lot of dire software simply because there are more PC's and more people creating abominations. Youd be wasting your time writing mediocre MAC software but PC users are used to it and need to be more discerning

    Overall, if someone is new to laptops a MAC would be a good user choice, but would it be a good financial decision? In fact if you like the look of OSX you can download a theme for XP so it looks the same

    Personally I have no bias whatsoever, having used everything to a fair degree in the past.

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    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    I prefer the look of a MAC and I like OSX, and for new users it is much easier in my opinion. Saying that, viruses are not an issue on PCs if you have any common sense - virus checkers and firewalls are free and you will only have trouble with a PC if you install lots of poor software willy-nilly.
    With regards to the virus issue, you are definitely wrong, in theory, with common sense and good knowledge of what anti-virus software works and which one is a waste of money, you could have a mostly stable PC. Unfortunately, most users have neither, and end up buying expensive software, or burying their head in the sand until their (affordable) PC becomes unusable and they need one of their (unbiased) friends to re-format the drive to remove all the spyware / virus they've accumulated in under a year. They lose a lot of their stuff (photos, documents, emails, etc...) and start again frustrated. When that fails, of if they don't have a patient (unbiased ) friend, they end-up ditching the old computer (only 18 months old but not working anymore) and buying a new (cheap again) PC...

    Overall, they will have spent more money (2 PCs, useless protection software, etc...) and time (trying to fix un-necessary problems) than if they'd bought the mac in the first place (I know most of the stuff I describe doesn't have to happen and that software to keep a healthy PC is available for free if you know where to look, but in the real world you quote above, people who buy a car to do the school run don't spend hours reading maintenance books to make sure their car is properly maintained).
    Franck.

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    well here is my 2p worth

    know what you want the computer to be able to do and get a trusted knowledgable friend to tell you what hardware requirements you need then go shopping - you know what you need can avoid the pit fall of believing the sales assistant.

    and buy what you are comfortable be it a Mac or a PC - I have had 2 PC laptops the first one lasted 10 years - was my only computer for 8 or so years and my current one is now around 4 years old - have had few problems with them.

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    not biased at all are you

    <snippety>

    Overall, if someone is new to laptops a MAC would be a good user choice, but would it be a good financial decision? In fact if you like the look of OSX you can download a theme for XP so it looks the same

    Personally I have no bias whatsoever, having used everything to a fair degree in the past.
    Personally, I'm completely biased. I use a Mac at home, & a PC at work, have done for some years. Much of my work at home overlaps with my professional work (web programming), so I have a nice basis for comparison. Both are good quality, fairly high spec machines, and the performance of each is similar. Quite simply, my productivity is much better on the Mac - it's nothing to do with the look of it (nothing wrong with the look of XP, in my opinion) - it's how the user interface works that makes the difference. If you count your time as money, you'll probably save a bit on general time spent at the computer (and that's without counting the issues that Franck mentions)

    I also have a decent PC at home, and the only time I ever turn it on is to test websites. (oh - and very occasionally to play Halflife 2, but I haven't had time for that in nearly a year)

    Go for Macs. You won't regret it.

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    I think all PC's come with virus checking software now, it tends to be free for the 1st year or so and there are free alternatives. Also windows now has a firewall as a default. I take your point about people not knowing about this though, windows really should have a free virus killer in it - Microsoft really has no excuse for not having one*.

    There are mac viruses too of course see here but there is certainly a lot less effort by nasty people to attack MACs. So yes - MAC = safer.

    I'm convinced that with no education on PCs, a MAC is the better choice overall - assuming you have the money. With any knowledge of PC's - and a little bit of knowledge will go a long way - there is no reason your PC wont last as long as the MAC would.

    What you are describing is a worse-case PC scenario. I know many people who are completely clueless at computers that have had very little problem with their PC and while I have sorted out a few that have messed things up, it doesnt happen in every case.

    To use your analogy about the car - if you buy a car and drive safely, dont go over the speed limit and take it into to get serviced occasionally (think windows update here) you'll be fine. If you drive to the nearest red light district and leave it parked in an alley with the windows down and the key in the ignition, youre asking for trouble






    * (not that the anti-virus companies would like that, but legitimate protection of the loopholes in your software is perfectly valid in my opinion - just as added video players etc..is not - thats a whole other subject)

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    I have shares in Apple Computer, and I think you should buy a Mac.

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    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck
    ...Overall, they will have spent more money (2 PCs, useless protection software, etc...) and time (trying to fix un-necessary problems) than if they'd bought the mac in the first place (I know most of the stuff I describe doesn't have to happen and that software to keep a healthy PC is available for free if you know where to look, but in the real world you quote above, people who buy a car to do the school run don't spend hours reading maintenance books to make sure their car is properly maintained).
    The problem with paying more for a Mac laptop (or any expensive laptop), is laptops are easy to drop / damage / lose / steal. With a cheap laptop there is a lot less need to worry about taking the laptop to more risky places ( assuming it is backed up), a

    And given you've been converted to a Mac by now, you can't just buy a cheap PC to replace it


    Also more expensive laptops will probably lose their resale value faster, as there is more to lose ( though Mac's do look like they hold up better than PC's )

    Also, all the software that comes with the mac is high-quality and well supported. She won't have to delete dozens of 'free' software with pesky reminders to register every time she boots up!
    I don't know if the software with the Mac is high quality and makes a coherent whole or not, but that would certainly be nice.

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo
    The problem with paying more for a Mac laptop (or any expensive laptop), is laptops are easy to drop / damage / lose / steal.
    Interestingly you get 3 years full cover including accidental damage from acer when you buy a laptop for only an extra £99 - which actually sems quite reasonalbe when its still less than £500 all in

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo
    The problem with paying more for a Mac laptop (or any expensive laptop), is laptops are easy to drop / damage / lose / steal. With a cheap laptop there is a lot less need to worry about taking the laptop to more risky places ( assuming it is backed up), a

    And given you've been converted to a Mac by now, you can't just buy a cheap PC to replace it

    Also more expensive laptops will probably lose their resale value faster, as there is more to lose ( though Mac's do look like they hold up better than PC's )
    If these are real considerations, then I recommend an Etch-a-sketch, which answers all three of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by frodo
    I don't know if the software with the Mac is high quality and makes a coherent whole or not, but that would certainly be nice.
    The software included with an Etch-a-sketch is totally integrated and coherent. It's also very easy to use.

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    If these are real considerations, then I recommend an Etch-a-sketch, which answers all three of them. The software included with an Etch-a-sketch is totally integrated and coherent. It's also very easy to use.
    [dumb blonde] Ah we're back onto something I understand! I used to have an Etch-a-sketch! [/dumb blonde]

    Thanks guys, will peruse this thread when my brain is a bit less frazzled. Though I think I may be a little more confused than I was to start off with. I was mainly looking for some straightforward advice or suggestions, should have known it would turn into a 'Mac is better than PC' discussion.

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    Thanks guys, will peruse this thread when my brain is a bit less frazzled. Though I think I may be a little more confused than I was to start off with. I was mainly looking for some straightforward advice or suggestions, should have known it would turn into a 'Mac is better than PC' discussion.
    Sorry to get drawn into that (silly predictable Mac owner)

    Something more useful for you:
    Dell - their desktop machines are good, I don't know enough about their laptops. But...
    Whatever you get, get it with as much onboard memory as your budget will stretch to. If you can, get 1 gig of RAM - trust me when I say that even 512Mb is too little. (I honestly think that in this day and age, to ship a machine with less than a gig is a rip-off, although everyone does (including Apple) )

    Good sized hard drive is also important, but less so (good externals are pretty cheap now, so if you need to expand on drive space at a later date, that'd be easy enough)

    Depending on what you want to do with it, I go with the 'smaller screen / have a larger monitor at home to plug into it' idea that someone suggested earlier. Makes it a lot easier to lug around, but gives you the large screen advantages at home - and you can get some good flat-panel screens very cheaply nowadays.

    If I do ever get a laptop, I'll do this (and keep a keyboard & mouse for it at home - I don't like laptop keyboards)

    Oh - and if we have swayed you at all on the Mac front, transferring files to a Mac is pretty easy, so loads of us can advise you on that score

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    [dumb blonde] Ah we're back onto something I understand! I used to have an Etch-a-sketch! [/dumb blonde]
    Ignore ESG. An etch-a-sketch is impossible to draw a circle on. Easy to use my arse.

    Thanks guys, will peruse this thread when my brain is a bit less frazzled. Though I think I may be a little more confused than I was to start off with. I was mainly looking for some straightforward advice or suggestions, should have known it would turn into a 'Mac is better than PC' discussion.
    Typical bias on the forum that what you do is just ignore everyone elses posts except mine

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Tesco is at the moment (in at least 2 stores in scotland) selling Acer Travelmate 2414 laptops for £299.99

    quick spec

    1.6ghz Celeron CPU
    DVD-+ rewriter
    40gb Hard Drive
    128mb intel graphics
    15.4" crystalbrite widescreen
    256mb memory
    4 usb ports

    add another 256mb (£20+) and you have a very decent machine there

  19. #39
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    Finally got my laptop! Took a while to check spec, options and price.

    Thanks DS for advice.

    Now just to get broadband!

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    Re: Buying a laptop - advice needed

    I'm thinking of one too - I'm looking at this Compaq model, any comments?

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