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Thread: Copyright laws: Sharing / copying TV programmes / software.

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    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Copyright laws: Sharing / copying TV programmes / software.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    5 steps to unhappiness

    download bitcomet - install - use to search for stuff - download - watch PC struggle under all the virus and malware attacks
    technically bitcomet/azeaus/bit tornado etc although themselves are legal programs downloading TV programs from the web is not legal. I know technically it's no different from sharing a Video tape of a Tv show but from a legal standpoint it's a gray area.

    And besides, my PC at home is like fort knox.. firewalls (hard and soft), Av software, Malware ,snooper and ad-ware removal programs, encryption programs, secure delete programs etc etc.. I have had "mixed" fortunes with peer to peer programs. out of the few downloads I've tried I'd say about 1/2 were infected with something or another nasty. Luckily nothing has yet to penetrate my shields.

    I personally (and were it possible) would ban all these peer to peer networking programs.. but then that's just me.. and it's a moot point anyway you cant disable it without adversely affecting the rest of the net.

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    Papa Smurf
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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Its illegal to ever go faster than 70 in a car too remember Sharing video and audio files you have legitimate access too (because they are already on your TV or radio) is what the internet is there for.

    Explain to me why dowloading a video that you usually tape is 'wrong' if taping it isnt?

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    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    Its illegal to ever go faster than 70 in a car too

    Explain to me why dowloading a video that you usually tape is 'wrong' if taping it isnt?
    As I don't drive I don't do that either.


    and TECHNICALLY videotaping of tv programs is against the copyright of the broadcasters.. Think of TV as Pay per view Streaming entertainment. Your licence allows you to watch whats on TV. However, this is one of these loosely (as in so loose it's untied) applied laws that it's considered non existant.

    As broadcasters pay to get their programs developed and broadcast they then have the option to sell that broadcast on a DVD or VHS later.. Think about going to see a live concert then bootlegging your own Album. same thing.

    Although most TV's don't have a bouncer / roadie on hand to break your fingers and smash your tape recorder if you try it.

    Like copying cd's to mp3 for own use it's accepted that this goes on and is generally accepted to be legal .. even though technically it's not.

    I'm dealing in TECHNICALLITIES here.. I can't imagine FAST or FACT coming down hard on someone for taping corrie.

    And if you drive faster than 70 mph then shame on you..

    Piracy is one my my major gripes.. as a software engineer/ computer programmer by trade and as a hobby. I used to have my own website of shareware apps that I ROUTINELY found hacked or with key gens on the web. despite me continually rewriting the code, making it harder to crack etc.. the crackers just saw it as a challenge. So I sorted them out.. I withdrew all my programs from the web.

    I take a dim view on piracy and copyright infringement. I don't even own a copied CD.

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970
    As I don't drive I don't do that either.
    Yes I know from the other thread, thats why I winked at you. Do stop going on about it


    Think of TV as Pay per view Streaming entertainment.
    The law has always seen videoing as "time shifting" i.e. watching tv at another time, downloading from the internet is no different - as long as you COULD have watched it on TV you had paid for.

    As broadcasters pay to get their programs developed and broadcast they then have the option to sell that broadcast on a DVD or VHS later.. Think about going to see a live concert then bootlegging your own Album. same thing.
    Poppycock good sir. DVDs are sold for people who may not necessarily have seen the program, if you are happy with your taped copy, than fine - keep it, but you wont get the dvd extras.
    You dont often watch a live band in your own home so the analogy is like comparing cheesecake to old socks.

    Although most TV's don't have a bouncer / roadie on hand to break your fingers and smash your tape recorder if you try it.
    yeah right, what exactly are video recorders for then? When they first came out a film on video would cost you 75 or thereabouts which was why lending libraries were so big in the 80's and if that was the main use, why have a recording ability. Recorders are for recording TV, always have been.

    Piracy is one my my major gripes.. as a software engineer/ computer programmer by trade and as a hobby. I used to have my own website of shareware apps that I ROUTINELY found hacked or with key gens on the web. despite me continually rewriting the code, making it harder to crack etc.. the crackers just saw it as a challenge. So I sorted them out.. I withdrew all my programs from the web.
    Piracy is inevitable, not many can afford to buy everything they would ever possibly use at any one time, especially when its a quick fix e.g. a one off file recovery. Piracy drives hardware sales (e.g. ZX Spectrum, Amiga, Playstation ). Piracy brings customers to good programs by enabling them to try it, something that shops stopped doing years ago. Its a shame you feel you lost custom due to piracy but i doubt that was the case, how many of the people using a keygen would actually have paid you money? Not many at all is my bet. Overall, piracy is not a bad thing. Computer software goes up in price for bigger profits which, in the past, has often caused piracy. With security measures that is lessened again somewhat, there is a happy balance in place.
    Piracy can be listening to a live concert from over the wall or can be downloading a computer game you just want to have a look at - whats the difference. You didnt intend to pay for either. Wheres the harm

    I take a dim view on piracy and copyright infringement. I don't even own a copied CD.
    Ooh controversial..discuss

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    Registered User Beowulf's Avatar
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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    hehe well we'll agree to disagree then

    I'm no angel (or no angle either.. what i originally typed!) I do "backup" my purchased wma tracks ,and convert my DVD's to a format I can watch on my pocket PC.

    I'm not some moral crusader or anything. I dont' mind people taping programs (I mean.. who doesn't.. well apart from me.. only because I don't own a video recorder.. if I miss it.. I miss it) I just don't like these P2P networks .. theya re a major security risk IMHO and not worth the hassle. Downloading of TV from the net is a gray area. And Why others probably have no problem with this , some do. Just playing devils advocate

    Friendly banter? Discuss

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970
    And besides, my PC at home is like fort knox.. firewalls (hard and soft), Av software, Malware ,snooper and ad-ware removal programs, encryption programs, secure delete programs etc etc.. I have had "mixed" fortunes with peer to peer programs. out of the few downloads I've tried I'd say about 1/2 were infected with something or another nasty. Luckily nothing has yet to penetrate my shields.
    Buy a Mac and you wouldn't need to!
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    yeah right, what exactly are video recorders for then? When they first came out a film on video would cost you 75 or thereabouts which was why lending libraries were so big in the 80's and if that was the main use, why have a recording ability. Recorders are for recording TV, always have been.
    actually just because a company makes something that is able to do something - doesn't mean that doing that with it is legal.

    ipods were readily available for sometime in Australia - before there was any legal way of putting music on them unless you had a UK or American Credit card.

    guns are legal and they are capable of killing people - this does not make that use of them legal.

    Video Recorders have always? had the cabability to record tv - but that use is generally not legal.
    A legal use would be to record your own home video onto VHS

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    Papa Smurf
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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Yliander
    actually just because a company makes something that is able to do something - doesn't mean that doing that with it is legal.
    When the first video recorder was brought out the company was sued because of the possibility of copying video, but timeshifting TV you were entitled to watch was seen as a valid use. The legal limitation is that technically you cannot give your tapes to anyone else, its for personal use only. Similar copyright "loopholes" are in place for other things, you can photocopy a certain amount of pages from a book before its illegal etc..
    All of this is to do with copyright though.

    guns are legal and they are capable of killing people - this does not make that use of them legal.
    killing someone is hardly a copyright issue - unless you're a lawyer for Wolfram and Hart or something

    Video Recorders have always? had the cabability to record tv - but that use is generally not legal.
    A legal use would be to record your own home video onto VHS
    Not what they came out in wouldnt - how would you have done it? The primary use for video (video 2000, beta, vhs or whatever) was to tape TV - if that had not been legal they would never have been sold.

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    Not what they came out in wouldnt - how would you have done it? The primary use for video (video 2000, beta, vhs or whatever) was to tape TV - if that had not been legal they would never have been sold.
    in many cases it's not illegal to sell something if it's use is illegal ie a bong - it's legal to sell them but not to use it.

    just because something can do a certain thing doesn't mean that to do that is legal.

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi
    Buy a Mac and you wouldn't need to!
    This is blatantly untrue. I own a Mac, and my PC still needs all the firewalls / AV software etc that it can get!!!

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    Sharing / copying TV programmes

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970
    I personally (and were it possible) would ban all these peer to peer networking programs.. but then that's just me.
    A computer game I purchased uses a peer-to-peer network to distribute its patches, based off BitTorrent. This saves them a vast amount of bandwidth and hardware, and delivers a better and cheaper service to its customers. It wraps up the peer-to-peer stuff in its own front end to give a better customer experience, of course.

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf1970
    So I sorted them out.. I withdrew all my programs from the web.
    Nose, face, cutting off, to spite one's - perhaps? I take it you're not a big fan of Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Yliander
    Video Recorders have always? had the cabability to record tv - but that use is generally not legal.
    It is a now well-established principle in UK law that recording a broadcast programme to 'time-shift' it is not a transgression of the rights of the copyright holder.

    Comparisons with guns, shooting people, speeding and so on are just silly.

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    ...Piracy is inevitable, not many can afford to buy everything they would ever possibly use at any one time, especially when its a quick fix e.g. a one off file recovery. Piracy drives hardware sales (e.g. ZX Spectrum, Amiga, Playstation ). Piracy brings customers to good programs by enabling them to try it, something that shops stopped doing years ago. Its a shame you feel you lost custom due to piracy but i doubt that was the case, how many of the people using a keygen would actually have paid you money? Not many at all is my bet...
    The commercial programs I wrote sold for 900 a time. A big incentive to steal. There were demo versions available to try, so that excuse failed. Selling dongles with the package put the production costs up 3000% and added to the programmimg costs. As usual the law-abiding had to pay for the crooks. Probably everybody that would have bought a cracked copy would have bought the real thing, because it was demonstrably worth far more. One feature of the package effectively made a drilling machine work 15% faster, with 25% less wear and tear. These machines started at 35,000. The "can't afford it" argument failed too.

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    The commercial programs I wrote sold for 900 a time. A big incentive to steal. There were demo versions available to try, so that excuse failed. Selling dongles with the package put the production costs up 3000% and added to the programmimg costs. As usual the law-abiding had to pay for the crooks. Probably everybody that would have bought a cracked copy would have bought the real thing, because it was demonstrably worth far more. One feature of the package effectively made a drilling machine work 15% faster, with 25% less wear and tear. These machines started at 35,000. The "can't afford it" argument failed too.
    In your example, fair enough. Theres no excuse for corporate copying, as its just another business cost that should be accounted for - if its too expensive they should go with other software. My arguments were aimed at the home pc market, hobbyists and the like - people who look at software just to look at software.

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver
    The commercial programs I wrote sold for 900 a time. A big incentive to steal. There were demo versions available to try, so that excuse failed. Selling dongles with the package put the production costs up 3000% and added to the programmimg costs. As usual the law-abiding had to pay for the crooks. Probably everybody that would have bought a cracked copy would have bought the real thing, because it was demonstrably worth far more. One feature of the package effectively made a drilling machine work 15% faster, with 25% less wear and tear. These machines started at 35,000. The "can't afford it" argument failed too.
    I'd argue that it's not a 900 price tag that's the incentive to copy (and I don't subscribe to the 'copying is theft' argument that the recording and software industries like to foist on us). If the software is so valuable, then the legit businesses that are prepared to pay at all would likely pay more than 900. Those that pirate it will do so whatever the price.

    Do you have any real information about how widespread the pirated use of your software is/was?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    n your example, fair enough. Theres no excuse for corporate copying, as its just another business cost that should be accounted for - if its too expensive they should go with other software. My arguments were aimed at the home pc market, hobbyists and the like - people who look at software just to look at software.
    How can you draw a distinction between hobbyists and businesses? ("businesses use software but they don't enjoy it...")

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    ...Do you have any real information about how widespread the pirated use of your software is/was?... ("businesses use software but they don't enjoy it...")
    As far as I am aware nobody broke it, that would probably imply that nobody tried. We were fortunate in having a limited market and only doing direct selling, so the pirates probably never even heard of it. Korea was a big market of ours, and people I know came back with suitcases full of pirated software from there. (ditto Singapore, Hong Kong.)

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264
    This is blatantly untrue. I own a Mac, and my PC still needs all the firewalls / AV software etc that it can get!!!
    Ah, sorry, missed step 2... throw out PCs running windows.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi
    Ah, sorry, missed step 2... throw out PCs running windows.
    Alas - I still needs it for testing websites, and running Halflife 2.
    Well - I will need it for that one day when I get a chance to play it. And when I get a new monitor (current one won't turn on)
    Oh - and for running allTunes.

    I reserve the Mac for doing anything useful

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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe

    Its a shame you feel you lost custom due to piracy but i doubt that was the case, how many of the people using a keygen would actually have paid you money? Not many at all is my bet.
    I can sympathise with Beowulf on this - I have written shareware which was cracked & pirated, and I definitely felt the sting. I don't know how many more would have bought had it not been cracked, but...
    1) The general attitude that piracy is not a bad thing encourages more and more people to do it.
    2) The easy availability of serial numbers / cracks etc does likewise.
    3) More and more we are finding ways to justify what is basically petty theft. How far do we want to take this?
    4) If I spend 2000 hours writing a piece of software, and some kid (who confesses to using it five hours a day) refuses to pay twenty quid to run it on his thousand pound computer because it's "too expensive" (this one was far too common).... well - it illustrates points 1, 2 & 3 nicely. And guess what? I don't want him to have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    Overall, piracy is not a bad thing. Computer software goes up in price for bigger profits which, in the past, has often caused piracy. With security measures that is lessened again somewhat, there is a happy balance in place.
    Which is basically trying to label the software companies as being in the wrong, therefore deserving to have their software stolen? Software can be a precarious business. Sure - some companies sell overpriced rubbish (M$) - but I still don't see that justifies theft, or makes it right in any way... you wouldn't apply that logic to shoplifting the boxed product direct from the company, so how can you apply it in other ways?

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: House / Grey's Anatomy

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat264
    Which is basically trying to label the software companies as being in the wrong, therefore deserving to have their software stolen? Software can be a precarious business. Sure - some companies sell overpriced rubbish (M$) - but I still don't see that justifies theft, or makes it right in any way... you wouldn't apply that logic to shoplifting the boxed product direct from the company, so how can you apply it in other ways?
    It's not stealing, and it's not theft. The concept of theft doesn't apply when something can be duplicated at zero cost. I'm not saying it isn't wrong, but dont use the language that the recording industry and software industries have managed to con on everyone if ever you want to think about the subject in an unbiased manner.

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