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Thread: Following?

  1. #101
    Registered User Wendy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sandy
    I beg yer puddin! Mine was sedated and put down long ago! However, they do have more than 1 life so who knows!

    Sandy
    The one in your avatar looks pretty lively to me ?? Hope you live in a huge house so you have lots of room to swing it !!!


    Wx

  2. #102
    Registered User Sandy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Wendy
    The one in your avatar looks pretty lively to me ?? Hope you live in a huge house so you have lots of room to swing it !!!


    Wx
    Oh no probs Wendy, it's well controlled and behaves purrfectly!!

    As long as it gets to go mad occasionally!
    Last edited by Sandy; 8th-April-2003 at 02:32 PM.

  3. #103
    Omnipotent Moderatrix (LMC)
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    Re: Leading

    Originally posted by John S


    So perhaps there's a case for guys to have a few dances (as followers) with some acknowledged experts at leading (as judged by the ladies) so that we know what it feels like to be well-led.

    Er...unfashionably On-topic , but conversely I think that dancing as a lead occasionally has improved my following, (well I hope so anyhow) because it has given me a much better idea of what the leader requires of the follower. Something along the lines of 'I see and I learn, I do and I understand'.

    Anyway, back to cats!

  4. #104
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    Heres something that I often wonder about.......If I am dancing with a woman, and she is not particularly good at dancing in time with the music, I try to make my lead a bit stronger, so that she will follow more in time with the music and me.........but what is it like for a woman who is being led by a man who is not dancing in time to the music?............can you influence his timing by trying to dance on beat..?

  5. #105
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    Originally posted by Dance Demon
    can you influence his timing by trying to dance on beat..?
    You can try....

    I have danced with one or two men who have 'issues' with the beat. I've found that the best way to avoid a wrenched shoulder and accusations of leading in these cases is to ignore the music where possible and follow them off beat...after all..they are leading!

  6. #106
    Registered User Jon's Avatar
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    Too right we are leading Emma wish you'd tell some ladies I've danced with this as sometimes it feels like I'm an extension to their arm.

  7. #107
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    Originally posted by Emma
    You can try....

    I have danced with one or two men who have 'issues' with the beat. I've found that the best way to avoid a wrenched shoulder and accusations of leading in these cases is to ignore the music where possible and follow them off beat...after all..they are leading!
    Yeh but,..don't you find it really difficult not dancing to the beat?
    I find it really hard to ignore the music when dancing

  8. #108
    Registered User Divissima's Avatar
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    it's a tough one - but I have to admit that if a man is dancing otherwise than in time with the music, I tend to do what I can to bring him onto the beat.

    I know someone will tell me that the man is supposed to lead - but I can't help it. If I hear a beat, I naturally follow it. The difficult part is where the music has more than one potential beat (the usual beat and a regular off-beat) - tonight I had a partner who could only hear the off-beat whereas I could hear the beat much more strongly. It was a struggle dancing to his lead as I kept wanting to dance to what, for me, was the stronger and more natural beat.

  9. #109
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    I've had a couple of dances, with excelent partners, that were more hard work than free flowing because I was picking up on one beat and she was picking up on another; both of us were trying to dance to the other's rhythm - just a mess. I have danced with the same partner to another song on the same night and have it just flow sweetly.

    IMHO, I think that the man should addapt to the lady's rhythm and emphisis on beat: Showing off your partner is what a majority of moves are intended to do - it's easier to work with them than against them.

  10. #110
    Chief Worrier PeterL's Avatar
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    I agree that dancing to the beat is important.
    However from personal experience I know that when first beggining I was so bad at leading and knowing the moves that thinking about/following a beat was just one extra complication.

    To learn to dance a guy first has to learn and feel comfortable with leading moves, once they can do this without thinking about it, the beat comes.

    It is worrying to think that they guys still learning to lead are being led because they cannot follow a beat.

    We all have to learn and if too many ladies had obviously taken to leading me when I bagan because I wasn't following the beat , my confidence would have been at rock bottom and I would have given up.

    The best way to deal with anybody not following a beat is to comment on something they do well and up there confidence.


  11. #111
    Registered User Divissima's Avatar
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    Originally posted by PeterL
    To learn to dance a guy first has to learn and feel comfortable with leading moves, once they can do this without thinking about it, the beat comes.
    That's one way to learn. There are other beginners who hear the beat and fit their movements to it (whether they are moves as such or just movement). So long as they are still leading, the lady can follow, whether it is a recognisable 'move' or not...

    [/QUOTE]
    It is worrying to think that they guys still learning to lead are being led because they cannot follow a beat.
    [/QUOTE]

    Dear heaven, man, you worry waaay too much. Can it really be good for you?? Besides, it isn't necessarily leading a man to try to bring him on-beat. You can do it my slowing down your spins to end on a beat (or, indeed, speeding them up) or by increasing your resistance to slow things down just enough to catch the beat. You don't have to force the man into anything - and I think it can help a nervous beginner/improver (call them what you will) to appreciate that by giving a move (and your partner) a bit of freedom, it (and she) can blossom

    [/QUOTE]
    We all have to learn and if too many ladies had obviously taken to leading me when I bagan because I wasn't following the beat , my confidence would have been at rock bottom and I would have given up.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thank heaven they didn't and you didn't [B][I]

  12. #112
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    The beat

    Pretending to enjoy the dance when my partner is having difficulty finding a/the/any beat is the toughest part of being a taxi dancer for me. My aim when dancing/taxi-ing with any beginner is to help them get to a point where the moves become automatic (almost) enough for them to feel the beat. If by the end of my 3 minutes with them they are getting there my job as taxi is worthwhile.

    As for dancing with a more experienced partner, even if they are having difficulty with (my interpretation) of the beat, I tend to dance to the beat I hear, whilst following their lead/moves. Mostly after a few moves we find a beat that suits us both, making it feel a lot less like hard work and much more fun.

    However, I know I am guilty of occasionally insisting that the leader moves to MY beat!

  13. #113
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    Originally posted by Gadget
    IMHO, I think that the man should addapt to the lady's rhythm and emphisis on beat:
    I'm all for adjusting to a different emphasis or taking multiple beats for a move, but I certainly don't think that you should follow a partner off-beat (ie, the music is 140bpm and they're dancing 120bpm).

    Originally posted by Gadget
    Showing off your partner is what a majority of moves are intended to do - it's easier to work with them than against them.
    It certainly is, but I find it near-impossible to dance off-beat, and I'm sure they look better when you guide them onto it rather than let them drift along to the mystery rhythm they can apparently hear.

  14. #114
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    I too find it extremely difficult to ignore the music and dance off-beat, and will definitely employ techniques such as spinning faster or slower or not quite catching a hand until it is actually on the beat ..what I wouldn't attempt to do is to try and dance on beat while the man was actually holding onto me. It goes against good following in my opinion (even if it is painful from a musical point of view! ).

    I've found that adopting this technique has improved my *dancing enjoyment* cos there are some guys out there who are lovely dancers, but just dancin' to a beat all their own!

    I did have a bit of trouble the other evening when a guy repeatedly asked me why he was getting ahead of everyone in the class. In the end I had to tell him it was because he was off-beat. When he asked me what he could do about it I was a bit stumped. The beat comes naturally to me. How do you teach someone rhythm? It seemed a bit crass just to say 'listen to the music'!

  15. #115
    Registered User Wendy's Avatar
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    I find it very hard to dance with someone who doesn't hear the (my??) beat !!! And take every opportunity to get him back on track .. is that bad ????

    I have found that some beginners miss out bits of moves which mucks up the beat. i.e they spin too early on the catapult or return you too early on a first move etc. As a taxi I take the time to go through the move during the intermediate class and it's great when they get it right.

    Wxxx

  16. #116
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    How do you teach someone rhythm? It seemed a bit crass just to say 'listen to the music'!
    Like all skills, I think that it's possible to learn this one. Whether or not you'd want to take the time with a complete beginner that you don't know is a different story entirely.

    First up, I'd ask them to show me where they think the beat in the music is (by tapping on a table or something in time to the music).

    Then I'd ask them (assuming that it's wrong), where they heard that in the music.

    Then I'd show them where I heard the beat, and try to get them to tap along with me in time to the beat, and then without me.

    Then I'd try a different song. And then another.....etc.

    Start off with easy tracks that have well defined beats, and also vary the speeds.

    Like I said, I don't think anyone would want to spend that much time at a dance night with someone who was a complete beginner. So it'd only happen if she was cute, and willing to come round my place sometime when there wasn't any dancing on

    Steve

  17. #117
    Registered User Chicklet's Avatar
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    [
    So it'd only happen if she was cute, and willing to come round my place sometime when there wasn't any dancing on

    Steve [/B][/QUOTE]


    Throw in some Haagen Daas and we might have a deal


    I actually beg to differ on this one - not convinced that beat and rhythm can be taught because there's a such a high proportion of instinct involved - I think this one's a talent rather than a skill.


    I think someone who can hear the basic beat can be taught / led / trained into playing with it more than just stepping on the beat (or deliberately and rhythmically off the beat) but the ability to hear it in the first place has to come from within.

    Anybody any experience of watching a newcomer develop from not hearing it to hearing it ?

    C

  18. #118
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    Okie. The Haagen Daas is yours. I didn't know that you had a problem finding the beat though!!

    I still think that it can be taught. To a degree. Okie, a person who has difficulty finding a beat in music is probably never going to play in the London Philharmonic. But I'm sure that they could be taught to recognise it to a degree that they can find it to dance to.

    When I move to Scotland, you can find me a cute female who doesn't know where the beat is, and I'll try to show her it! And the beat too.

    Steve

  19. #119
    Registered User Wendy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Chicklet

    Anybody any experience of watching a newcomer develop from not hearing it to hearing it ?

    C
    Can't say I've noticed... but I have noticed nonbeginners who still don't hear it !!!

    Am with Chicklet on this one. Surely it comes from within ??? Maybe they have an irregular heartbeat, or perhaps their mother's was, so now they are confused . In olden times they'd have been gobbled up by tigers cos they'd misinterpret drum messages from their tribesmen ie "How's it hanging John ? Fancy a pint ??" when it should be "Run for your life there's a ***%%$$$ great big tiger behind that tree !!!"

    Wxxx

  20. #120
    The Oracle
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    I see a lot of people dancing off beat, and not just beginners. But I doubt many of those people realise they are doing it, or know it is wrong. I don't think I've ever seen a teacher explain what is right and what is wrong.

    It just seems to be one of those things (like footwork) that never gets taught, but you are just expected to do. And generally this approach seems to work. I can remember the confusion the first time I did Cha Cha Cha, when the teacher had to explain about dancing on the '2', not the '1'. So perhaps Ceroc have the right approach, given their primary aim of getting people dancing and having fun.

    As a man, it rarely affects me if the lady has a different interpretation of the beat. I'll start counting to myself first (to make sure that I haven't got it wrong!), and then do something like a double return that gives me a chance to adjust the lady's timing. However I would imagine it must drive the ladies mad when a man gets it consistently wrong.

    I've got no idea how to teach it.

    David

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