Hello Breeny!
These people are referred to as Hotshots here....I am sure someone will post relevant links to previous threads about this soon.
Been dancing now for the last 6 years started in Solihull then moved on i have noticed more and more that a lot of people that have been dancin for 6 months or more are turning their backs on all the new people that attend there venues. saying " i don't like to dance with new people its too hard", "humping the beginners around kills me", "i'm not askin them they don't know how to dance......ect
is this just me or are people becoming Ceroc SNOBS
have your say breeny
Hello Breeny!
These people are referred to as Hotshots here....I am sure someone will post relevant links to previous threads about this soon.
like this one: What is a Hotshot Dancer?
Exactly - thank you.
Confession of an ex-hot shot: I can't remember whether I was ever brave enough to post this...
I certainly went through a stage for about three or four months where I was very reluctant to dance with beginners for the following reasons:
1. As the leader is (supposed to be!) in control of the dance, it can frequently be more frustrating for a follower to dance with a beginner lead than vice versa.
2. I was "good enough" to follow a variety of intermediate moves, but was completely dependent on the lead for style and musicality - as I was NOT good enough to 'multi-task' - i.e. follow moves well (in terms of frame, connection, posture, speed of reaction) and think about style/musicality all at the same time. This meant that just following beginner moves was BORING and sometimes painful.
As my dancing and following have improved, I can take more 'control' of a dance without backleading - i.e. time spins to get the leader back on beat again; do a quick ball change or adjust my frame/posture to neutralise "odd" moves, yanking or spaghetti leads; think about my spare arm/other style points and finally, listen more to the music - identifying breaks even if we're not hitting them! This means that dancing with beginners can make a nice change, because it allows me to focus on me, whereas some leads are so challenging (although wonderful!) that I'm still dependent on their style, musicality, etc and just have to concentrate on following!
Like Trampy, I'm just a beginner (the more I learn, the more I seem to need to learn).
The below has been quoted so many times before, but it's oh-so-true:
"Beginning dancer: knows nothing, dances with anyone.
Intermediate dancer: knows everything; too good to dance with beginners.
Hotshot dancer: too good to dance with anyone.
Advanced dancer: Dances everything. Especially with beginners."
- Dick Crum
Yeah yeah, shouldn't quote myself, but more musings:
I respectfully submit the evidence that I've only just graduated to intermediate lead and get far more frustrated with my own limitations and lack of variety of moves than I ever get with any follower.Originally Posted by LMC
And the "reasons" are just that - possible reasons, not acceptable excuses for refusing to dance with beginners. I never refused beginners when I was in my hotshot phase, but I freely admit that I used to avoid eye contact - now I often hunt 'em down, even when I'm not taxi-ing
I must admit, I have some sympathy for this point of view.Originally Posted by Breeny
For years, I used to always go to classes in time for the beginners lesson, in order to work on my own style as well as dancing with the beginners. More recently I've been prone to back strain (too much air travel and computer work) and when my back is dodgy I've had to forego the beginners class as being too physically demanding and risky. Beginner ladies often need a considerably stronger and more directive lead, and they are far more likely to subject the leader to unusual and unexpected forces, if you see what I mean. So sometimes it can feel like "humping beginners about", and sometimes, as far as my back is concerned, it does "kill me".
Fnarrrr FnarrrrrrOriginally Posted by Breeny
Personally I'm all for this!
Originally Posted by LMC
I'm a beginner, hoping one day to become just a beginnerOriginally Posted by LMC
"Beginning dancer: knows nothing, dances with anyone. "
The other point of view mentioned in once or twice is that Ceroc is a hobby. People go to have fun. Me, I'm strange. A lady smiling like crazy while we just dance one move over and over again makes my night. Other people enjoy themselves in different ways. And if that means they only dance with the smooth as silk dancers or spend all night dancing with their sweetie, good luck to them.
To each their own,
Christopher
Here it is as requested Breeny:-
Originally Posted by Breeny
John
Originally Posted by johnthehappyguy
Originally Posted by azande
Pm'd Breeny, who replied and then he/she? asked me to post the reply. hope this clears things up
John
"people go to these venues to have a good time and meet people and enjoy the dancin they forget that they had to start once".
i now go out of my way to dance with the beginners as this will help them to become better dancers quicker, therefor giving all dancers a better night if people just want to dance with the best dancers then this should be left till you go to a freestyle. if someone has the bottle to come and ask you to dance then dont make them feel like crap and turn them down no one likes to be rejected it hurts
Breeny
You're preaching to the converted (i.e. pretty much most people on the forum).
We all deserve to have a good night - If people don't want to go out of their way to dance with beginners, then why should they? I'll dance with who I want to dance with (as long as they want to dance with me!).
As far as refusals go, there's no need to be rude, and any refusal should be at least polite, and preferably have a good reason.
Good reasons include but may not be limited to:
- recovering from an injury, wants to stick to the partners they *know* won't injure them.
- feeling like they are about to die of dehydration or their legs are about to fall off - needs drink/shirt change/rest.
- has promised to dance with someone else.
- just doesn't feel like it - in which case, accepting an offer from or asking someone else during the same track *is* a bit rude.
- the person who has asked has a known unpleasant habit/smell (in which case someone should say something to them, or at least to the venue manager/other person who can 'deal with it').
Freestyles are my time. I wouldn't turn down a beginner "just because" they were a beginner - I would have a good reason - see above. However I deserve "my share" of dances with willing better dancers - the same as everyone - and if I've been taxi-ing for two hours, once I'm off duty, I need those dances to ensure the standard of my own dancing doesn't slip.
Plus, let's not get too precious about beginners. Most people are happy to dance with beginners - it appears to me that it's the new-ish intermediates that have the worst time of it: they no longer have the "excuse" of being a beginner, but they are frequently still struggling with basics and may, unfortunately, have picked up a reputation for a bad habit (e.g. gripping).
I used to assist a teacher and, after the class, she went round the room giving the seated men a dance, and I went round the room giving the seated women a dance. --Some were great and some were a beat free zone! And I had a great dance with her as we met going round one each way.
I still try to get a good dance and get a beginner off their seat during an evening. Though at my recent local club the men so out-number the women that getting a dance is not easy
Last edited by RogerR; 25th-May-2006 at 08:21 PM.
I couldn't agree more agree, it is nice to have a FAB dance with someone who is better then you, but it makes my day to have a dance with a newbie and they tell you that they have had a FAB dance with you.Originally Posted by Breeny
After all todays newbies are tomorrow's experts if you don't rember them they sure will remember you
- its the grail!!!!Originally Posted by RogerR
A venue where there are more men than women
Originally Posted by Princess Fi
They must be doing something really right, or really wrong!
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
I don't. Does that make me a bad person (or a "hotshot")?Originally Posted by Breeny
Let me qualify that. I never turn down a beginner who asks me to dance - in fact I very rarely turn anyone down, and never without a good reason - but I don't always actively seek to dance with beginners. I often ask one or two of them to dance in an evening, but not always. After all, I've paid my money just like everyone else, so I think I'm entitled to dance with whoever I want to. Sometimes that includes beginners, but often it doesn't.
Actually, I've had some very enjoyable dances with beginners, but I'm afraid I object to the expectation that I must dance with beginners. Or anyone else, for that matter.
Last edited by Baruch; 25th-May-2006 at 11:33 PM.
No, entering competions makes you a bad personOriginally Posted by Baruch
I do - mainly because I've finally realised they're the ones who leave first so I need to grab 'em quick if I want a dance. That said I'm still fairly random in who I ask. It's more of a "move round the room in a cw direction and ask whoever happens to be nearest" strategy. (Or wait for someone to sneak up behind me, pull my pony tail and ask for a dance )Originally Posted by Baruch
Originally Posted by Baruch
(Not looking to start a fight, but this is how I genuinely feel)
I also object to the expectation that anyone must dance with anyone. I know it's the Ceroc ethos, but I fundamentally disagree with it. But as has been recently pointed out to me "I'm a bad, bad man". Ironically although I've postponed a few dances for at most 5 minutes, I've never turned down anyone. But it's my choice to do so.
Be Well,
Christopher
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