How high to raise your hand?

[firefly]

Thank you to everyone who's posted so far. I really didn't expect so many replies!

I don't tend to give feedback to my partners, for various reasons, unless it's to say I enjoyed the dance. I did make an exception last week in class; my last partner on the rotation was considerably taller than me, and kept raising my arm to the point my shoulder felt uncomfortable (though not painful). At the end I said something to him along the lines of "I think maybe my hand doesn't need to be quite so high - I'm only little!" I hope he didn't take it badly; I did ask him for the first dance in freestyle and he accepted so hopefully not!

Lots of good advice on this thread. Perhaps the best thing would be for me to try out different approaches and see what works best for me.

[firefly]

Look at the angle of her arm and the height of her hand
Actually MissyD's avatar has quite a good demo
Be Well,
Christopher

I went and had a look at MissyD's avatar. Now I'm feeling rather inspired!

[firefly]

It's a tip, on how to secretly spray deoderant onto your smelly partner without her noticing.

[killingtime]

A handful of ladies prefer a stationary hand, and they spin underneath it. Generally they have had some ballet/jazz training, and are good enough to do the same number of spins without the man.

Most ladies find it easier with the hand in front of the forehead. The man should be able to lead the turn by keeping his forearm stationary and just moving his hand at the wrist.

Useful stuff. Some times I worry I do a little stirring especially on some moves. Anyway what I try and do is give a stationary hand for the lady to turn under. That means that if she wants to take half a beat to spin or take eight beats to do a stylish wiggle around then she gets the choice. If I'm leading multiple spins I'll do a slight halo to try and indicate that I want her to turn at a particular speed and, more importantly, I'm leading more than one.

I find some dancers, presumably as a result of dancing with people who stir, will try and turn under anything. For example doing a turn under your own comb sometimes results in the woman trying to turn as well even though trying to turn under her extended arm must be uncomfortable.

When I follow I try and spin under a good spin spot though I often drift off balance (much more than when I do a free spin). Still more practice and I might get there .

[Freya]

my last partner on the rotation was considerably taller than me, and kept raising my arm to the point my shoulder felt uncomfortable (though not painful). At the end I said something to him along the lines of "I think maybe my hand doesn't need to be quite so high - I'm only little!" I hope he didn't take it badly; I did ask him for the first dance in freestyle and he accepted so hopefully not!

I'm sure he didn't take it badly! I'm fairly tall and you get some people who feel that they have to raise their hand even higher to get you to turn under it and it feels uncomfortable to me! I usually say something because if i'm stretching then I feel sorry for the other girls who are smaller than me!

It also works the other way round! Was dancing with a friend the other week just after he had been dancing with someone alot smaller he usually allows to spin me really well with the hand just above the forehead! this dance he clobbered me in the head just above the nose!!!! Brought Tears to my eyes!!!!

So just a wee note guys - adjust to the height of your partner!!!!!

[linny lou!]

. If I'm leading multiple spins I'll do a slight halo to try and indicate that I want her to turn at a particular speed and, more importantly, I'm leading more than one.

.

yeh tell me bout it pheweeee

[Ghost]

For example doing a turn under your own comb sometimes results in the woman trying to turn as well even though trying to turn under her extended arm must be uncomfortable.

If this is like the beginning of the Train, I've pretty much given up on doing it "properly". I keep going into an actual comb and then , when her hand's resting on my shoulder, I turn around 180. Just seems cleaner to me and I haven't had any problems with it (to the extent that I was able to mess around with Georgious Dancer last night, by not actually going anywhere and letting her figure out what to do instead (of course she was well able )

Gotta love that we're still discussing this after the last word

Take care,
Christopher

[spindr]

<start draft for comments>

One version of a follower's (single) handhold for a turn with continuous connection.

The arm to turn under should be at right angles (bent 90 degrees at the elbow) (in a vertical plane) -- the upper arm parallel to the floor at shoulder height and the forearm vertical and directly in front of your eye (on the same side as the turning arm).

This can be checked as follows: the non-turning arm / hand should be able to hold the turning upper arm comfortably (near to the turning arm's elbow) so that the non-turning arm is also at right angles (bent 90 degrees at the elbow) in a horizontal plane -- the upper arm parallel to the floor and pointing straight forwards at shoulder height, the forearm parallel to the floor and parallel to your chest. You should be able to comfortably dance a spin with the arms in this position and the arms should not move relative to your body (and each other). In particular, the elbow of the turning arm should not drift upwards and out to the side of your body as you spin -- as this will make you "wider" and more dangerous to dance with (especially if your elbow gets to the height of your partner's face, nose, etc.).

The wrist of the turning arm should be "cocked back", i.e. angled slightly backwards towards your head -- so that were you to extend your thumb, you would be able to touch the brow of your head.

The fingers of the turning hand should be kept together and curled to form an approximate half of a cylinder -- so that the leader can fit (and also rotate) two of their fingers pointing vertically down inside the followers hand. The leader can then lead the turn by drawing a "halo" around the approximate circumference of followers head, with the leader's fingers rotating inside the follower's handhold as the follower dances their turn. The half-cylinder handhold minimises the risk of the leader losing grip and maximises the chance for the leader to be able to lead and maintain connection throughout the entire turn, rather than leading the start of the turn and then losing (some) connection until the follower returns back to face.
<end draft for comments>

SpinDr

[Ghost]

<start draft for comments>

The arm to turn under should be at right angles (bent 90 degrees at the elbow) (in a vertical plane) -- the upper arm parallel to the floor at shoulder height and the forearm vertical and directly in front of your eye (on the same side as the turning arm). <end draft for comments>

SpinDr

Point of clarification - what if the two dancers are of notably different heights?
If I'm leading a follow smaller than me, should I bend my knees to keep the forearm - eye level parallel to the floor? If the follow is taller than I am what do I do?

Be Well,
Christopher

[spindr]

Point of clarification - what if the two dancers are of notably different heights?

Kneel down while you're spinning them

SpinDr

[killingtime]

yeh tell me bout it pheweeee

Well you spin really well .

[killingtime]

Gotta love that we're still discussing this after the last word

The cold death of the universe wouldn't stop forumites discussing topics .

[Ghost]

Kneel down while you're spinning them

SpinDr

On a seriousish note - think how many times between us we've done spins, turns or returns - think how many times just in the average Ceroc Class! I will freely admit to not knowing the answer - but then I'm getting quite comfortable with my beginner status .

I have been trying to figure this out recently though, so any added advice would be welcomed? Is there a maximum height difference? How much taller can a person be than you and still be led properly through a turn using this method or should you just stick with a manspin etc?

I do like the idea of kneeling when trying to turn Taz though.........

Thanks
Christopher

[LMC]

The cold death of the universe wouldn't stop forumites discussing topics .

Ain't that the truth

At 5'11 in my sparkly shoes, I am taller than the national male average of 5'9.

IMO, it's only really a major problem if the guy's shoulders/arm is SO stiff that I can't push it up to a height that means a) I won't get hit b) I don't have to duck (I refuse to compromise my posture). I have danced with a few very stiff-shouldered leads like this, not pleasant. If the lead is a LOT shorter, then the easy solution is for the follower to let go. Likewise, if the lead is a lot taller - don't get yanked, let go. [Complete generalisation warning:] I actually get hit over the head more by taller guys. The shorter ones are used to having to adjust for women who are taller than them, and seem to adapt better to different heights of followers.

Followers should be completely in control of their own balance/weight whilst turning and in control of most of the momentum - i.e. not hanging onto the lead's hand. From the follower's point of view, a turn should actually be a block, which causes us to change direction, rather than an actual "shove". From this point of view, for a single turn or return, it shouldn't really matter where the lead's hand is, unless s/he has really shoved or yanked you off balance or they are 'stirring' or about to hit you over the head. OK, it actually does matter where their hand is, but for me, quite honestly does not really affect the quality of most dances as long as I'm not being shoved, yanked or walloped over the head. And if I'm not in actual physical pain then life is just too damn short and I let 'em get on with it rather than getting my protractor out to measure the angle of our elbows.

We had 2 very tall beginner men in last night's taxi review class and a couple of quite tiny women! - I did put an emphasis on the fact that it is the lead's job to adjust to the follower's height - and that if someone is hurting you, you tell them so.

Just don't get me started on pretzels...

[killingtime]

I actually get hit over the head more by taller guys.

Guilty. I recall tapping your head at least a few times. You are quite right that I'm not used to dancing with people that are around my height (even Funky Mado isn't that much taller than me). It is something I need to learn to properly adjust for .

[Freya]

I actually get hit over the head more by taller guys. The shorter ones are used to having to adjust for women who are taller than them, and seem to adapt better to different heights of followers.

I find that it's Guys who are of a similar height or only slightly taller I think they think that they don't have to try to spin you that completely clobber you! However this doesn't happen too often! usually its just a skim over the top of the head which if my hair is pinned up is really annoying

Just don't get me started on pretzels...

Grrrrrr people who don't adjust for height in pretzels!!!! Nearly got decapitated the other week by a beginner with really stiff arms!!!!

[Gadget]

Is there a maximum height difference? How much taller can a person be than you and still be led properly through a turn using this method or should you just stick with a manspin etc?

If the follower can touch the lead's shoulder at a relaxed dancing distance, then they can dance together. If not, then they can't

{My daughter keeps trying to turn me - unless I knacker my knees and dunt down on them during the turn, it's impossable (she is only 5). You can't bend the knees too much, because then they hit your partner. Give her another year or so and she'll be tall enough to turn me.}

[Ghost]

If the follower can touch the lead's shoulder at a relaxed dancing distance, then they can dance together. If not, then they can't

{My daughter keeps trying to turn me - unless I knacker my knees and dunt down on them during the turn, it's impossable (she is only 5). You can't bend the knees too much, because then they hit your partner. Give her another year or so and she'll be tall enough to turn me.}

Thanks

to your daughter for trying

Be Well,
Christopher