View Poll Results: Does your local teacher dance with ALL punters?

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  • Yup. They are a true martyr to the cause.

    14 28.00%
  • Mostly

    7 14.00%
  • Sometimes

    7 14.00%
  • Only with their favourites

    15 30.00%
  • What? Dance with the mass unwashed?

    4 8.00%
  • Click, click, click

    3 6.00%
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Thread: Teachers dancing with punters?

  1. #41
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    ...'Name and shame' as you put it: put up - or shut up. Otherwise you unfairly tar every teacher in London with the same brush.

    Let's see: teachers in and around London that I know dance with all their students (still limited experience of dance in London, but maybe less limited than yours) are: George, BillCo, Bex, Amy, Lee, Howard, Carol, Jo, Simon Borland, Mike, Paul Alloway at Uxbridge, Ruth, Clare and Tim. Oh, and Dan and Russell at Ceroc Greenwich. Who did you have in mind to criticize while also insulting all these people?
    ElaineB has posted her experience and you've posted yours. Both contain useful and interesting information. No one has represented it as other than their experience. Everyone is free to post - or create a poll specific to London.

    It would be unfortunate if people didn't post clearly qualified negative information, in this sort of case, because they thought that if they did they had to name and shame.

  2. #42
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo
    ElaineB has posted her experience and you've posted yours. Both contain useful and interesting information. No one has represented it as other than their experience. Everyone is free to post - or create a poll specific to London.
    Yes - but London's a big place; it's got several different franchises and several dozen different venues going.

    From a numbers point of view, saying "London teachers do XXX" is like saying "every teacher outside SE England does XXX" - which I think most people would dispute.

    In terms of posting negative information - we have review threads such as "Feeback on Club nights", which we can use for that, they've got positive and negative comments, and no-one's really complained about that. I think specific comments are more useful than general comments; otherwise, how can people learn / change things?

  3. #43
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    Leaving aside your false humility for a second, I'm pleased to hear it, although of course I'd expect nothing less.Actually I do. 'Name and shame' as you put it: put up - or shut up. Otherwise you unfairly tar every teacher in London with the same brush.Let's see: teachers in and around London that I know dance with all their students (still limited experience of dance in London, but maybe less limited than yours) are: George, BillCo, Bex, Amy, Lee, Howard, Carol, Jo, Simon Borland, Mike, Paul Alloway at Uxbridge, Ruth, Clare and Tim. Oh, and Dan and Russell at Ceroc Greenwich. Who did you have in mind to criticize while also insulting all these people?
    Good grief, did you get out of the wrong side of the stable or something this morning?

    If I have insulted any teachers on here, then please accept my apoligies. Those who dance with the punters know who they are, equally, so do those who don't!

    I have already stated that I have limited experience of teachers in London! I have also said 'some' - I have not said 'all'! I am sorry ESG, but I am not prepared to name and shame.

    Elaine

    PS It is a shame that your sensabilities regarding 'insults' don't extend to your own behaviour - Whitebeard was was trying to pay me a compliment!

  4. #44
    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB
    Good grief, did you get out of the wrong side of the stable or something this morning?
    No. We just have a difference of opinion over what's an effective presentation of a point. Some people think that negative comments directed at large groups of people - because the poster is too lazy, shy or embarassed to be specific about their target when they know exactly who they're talking about - are 'good form'. On the other hand I think they're both uninformative and a slur on everyone else who gets caught in the vaguery of the description. *You* know who you mean; *we* have to guess. You're too smart not to know that you're casting suspicion on many when you don't need to.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB
    If I have insulted any teachers on here, then please accept my apoligies. Those who dance with the punters know who they are, equally, so do those who don't!
    That does not, as far as I can see, make the whole thing OK.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB
    I have already stated that I have limited experience of teachers in London! ... I am sorry ESG, but I am not prepared to name and shame.
    Two good reasons to have held your tongue.
    PS It is a shame that your sensabilities regarding 'insults' don't extend to your own behaviour - Whitebeard was was trying to pay me a compliment!
    If I've insulted Whitebeard (himself, as distinct from his words) then he will let me know, and we will take it from there. However at least he's aware of whom I speak, he's around to read what I wrote and he has the opportunity to reply to it in this, the same forum. That's an opportunity you continue to refuse to extended to your subjects.

  5. #45
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Ahem.

    So, anyway, back on topic, I think that some teachers are clearly better at the "work the room" part of it than others. Simon Borland and Mike Ellard, for example, are naturally superb at this aspect of the role.

    What most professionals - especially the teachers - may sometimes forget is how much in awe they are regarded by the average punter. There's an air of glamour that goes with being a teacher, and every little move they make (literally) is imbued with significance.

    So tiny actions, which from anyone else would be ignored, are magnified to be of Extreme Importance. And - and this is the main point - this "magnification" (or cult of celebrity) doesn't stop at the end of the class. So even if it's the teacher's free time, and sometimes even if the teacher is at a different venue, they're under the spotlight to a degree.

    So what they do - for example, choosing who they want to dance with, even on their nights off - is seen as favouritism, elitist or whatever. Whereas with a non-teacher this is just normal behaviour.

    Some teachers are aware of their continuous celeb status - hell, some (esp. male) teachers depend on it. But some aren't, or don't handle it well - they try to be "normal" outside their job, or try to split social dancing and work dancing.

  6. #46
    Registered User Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

    Leaving aside your false humility ......
    I really believe it is better to recognise one's limitations.

  7. #47
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Yes - but London's a big place; it's got several different franchises and several dozen different venues going.

    From a numbers point of view, saying "London teachers do XXX" is like saying "every teacher outside SE England does XXX" - which I think most people would dispute
    I think that is all likely to be true (depending on the definition of London), but it is also true that leaves are usually green

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    In terms of posting negative information - we have review threads such as"Feeback on Club nights", which we can use for that, they've got positive and negative comments, and no-one's really complained about that. I think specific comments are more useful than general comments; otherwise, how can people learn / change things?
    I think you're right that specific comments are more useful, but when the choice is between general comments and no comments at all, I'd normally prefer the general.

    In general I'm not sure you have much of a thread here without negative information.



    More directly on topic, I'd prefer the teachers should give priority to teaching well as opposed to dancing with punters. While I'll long remember and appreciate those teachers who generally dance and those who have danced with me, it is a minor consideration, whereas the quality of the teaching is a major one.

  8. #48
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    Ahem.

    So, anyway, back on topic, I think that some teachers are clearly better at the "work the room" part of it than others. Simon Borland and Mike Ellard, for example, are naturally superb at this aspect of the role.

    What most professionals - especially the teachers - may sometimes forget is how much in awe they are regarded by the average punter. There's an air of glamour that goes with being a teacher, and every little move they make (literally) is imbued with significance.

    So tiny actions, which from anyone else would be ignored, are magnified to be of Extreme Importance. And - and this is the main point - this "magnification" (or cult of celebrity) doesn't stop at the end of the class. So even if it's the teacher's free time, and sometimes even if the teacher is at a different venue, they're under the spotlight to a degree.

    So what they do - for example, choosing who they want to dance with, even on their nights off - is seen as favouritism, elitist or whatever. Whereas with a non-teacher this is just normal behaviour.

    Some teachers are aware of their continuous celeb status - hell, some (esp. male) teachers depend on it. But some aren't, or don't handle it well - they try to be "normal" outside their job, or try to split social dancing and work dancing.

    I agree with you whole-heartedly on this one, teachers live in a fishbowl in the world of MJ - people know who they are, and when they're around they get watched. People also seem to expect them to be able to say off the top of their heads "you could do this to improve" where that teacher may simply be enjoying a social dance - and really not looking for ways to help the other person improve their dancing.

    At the end of the day teachers are people too, choosing to want to dance with someone that they particularly like dancing with (for whatever reason) isn't necessarily elitest - yes it may be, but isn't that making a judgement call on the motives behind their actions, and who am I to say what is inside a persons head?

    I've even had students turn me down for a dance (or at least try to), because they're too scared to dance with a teacher!

    That's why I love going to venues every now and then where I'm not known.. unfortunately with my recent move from Melb to NZ there are some people who know me, and that I was teaching over there, and have "spread the word"... Fortunately not now, and having never taught here I don't think (or at least I hope) that no-one thinks I'm being elitest simply because I tend to ask people to dance who I know I'm going to enjoy the dance with - there's only so many tracks played in one night!

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