View Poll Results: Does your local teacher dance with ALL punters?

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  • Yup. They are a true martyr to the cause.

    14 28.00%
  • Mostly

    7 14.00%
  • Sometimes

    7 14.00%
  • Only with their favourites

    15 30.00%
  • What? Dance with the mass unwashed?

    4 8.00%
  • Click, click, click

    3 6.00%
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Thread: Teachers dancing with punters?

  1. #21
    Registered User LilyB's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Sorry David, but for the CTA dancing with punters is explicilty part of the job ... well it was when I qualified. Its part of the Blitz expectation, but the amount of NWest teachers dancing with dancers is absolutely minimal
    If it is explicitly part of the job, as you say, then it is a contractual obligation which the teacher has to fulfil (which is exactly the point David was making).

    I wonder, however, whether the 'obligation to dance with the punters' extends to those punters who are not beginners? Although I appreciate that it is vitally important to the success of a venue to encourage beginners by dancing with them, is it not also in the venue's interest to maintain the loyalty of the more experienced dancers by making sure the teachers dance with them as well? Very often, the teacher is the best dancer at the venue and hence many of the better dancers at the venue would greatly appreciate a dance with him/her. If his/her time is spent dancing only with the beginners, there is very little incentive for the better dancers to regularly patronise that venue. These better dancers will then drift away to those venues where they know they are likely to find other better dancers to dance with.

    I know of quite a few venues which are successful in drawing in the numbers but not the quality of dancers, because of their apparent policy of encouraging only beginners. I have personally experienced some venues where the teachers will only ask the beginners (or their crew) to dance, and after several visits of not getting a single dance from the teacher, I find little incentive to return. I am aware that I am not the only person (usually female) who feels this way. I guess it all depends on which 'punters' the venues think are worth keeping or attracting.

  2. #22
    Registered User Alice's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyB
    If it is explicitly part of the job, as you say, then it is a contractual obligation which the teacher has to fulfil (which is exactly the point David was making).

    I wonder, however, whether the 'obligation to dance with the punters' extends to those punters who are not beginners? Although I appreciate that it is vitally important to the success of a venue to encourage beginners by dancing with them, is it not also in the venue's interest to maintain the loyalty of the more experienced dancers by making sure the teachers dance with them as well? Very often, the teacher is the best dancer at the venue and hence many of the better dancers at the venue would greatly appreciate a dance with him/her. If his/her time is spent dancing only with the beginners, there is very little incentive for the better dancers to regularly patronise that venue. These better dancers will then drift away to those venues where they know they are likely to find other better dancers to dance with.

    I know of quite a few venues which are successful in drawing in the numbers but not the quality of dancers, because of their apparent policy of encouraging only beginners. I have personally experienced some venues where the teachers will only ask the beginners (or their crew) to dance, and after several visits of not getting a single dance from the teacher, I find little incentive to return. I am aware that I am not the only person (usually female) who feels this way. I guess it all depends on which 'punters' the venues think are worth keeping or attracting.
    Good point. HOwever, I don't think anyone is necessarily putting forward the idea that the teachers dance exclusively with the beginner punters- if they danced with punters from a mixture of levels including at least a few beginners each night it would be a good start...

  3. #23
    Ceroc N.I. Franchise Owner drathzel's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    As RK mentioned, i dance with everyone, especially when i am teaching, i make sure i chase people if i havent had a dance and i leave my taxis and demos to the last few tracks, and normally only if i have danced with most, if not all, of my other punters. We have small classes here so it is easier. During the first break i target beginners, after the intermed class i target intermeds as it normally helps them with the routine taught that night, then i dance with everyone and anyone.

    Oh and i do all the asking as nobody likes to ask the teacher!

  4. #24
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyB
    If it is explicitly part of the job, as you say, then it is a contractual obligation which the teacher has to fulfil (which is exactly the point David was making).

    /snip/

    I know of quite a few venues which are successful in drawing in the numbers but not the quality of dancers, because of their apparent policy of encouraging only beginners. I have personally experienced some venues where the teachers will only ask the beginners (or their crew) to dance, and after several visits of not getting a single dance from the teacher, I find little incentive to return. I am aware that I am not the only person (usually female) who feels this way. I guess it all depends on which 'punters' the venues think are worth keeping or attracting.
    Lily, I think it so depends on the numbers.... For a teacher to get around and make everyone happy he/she would need to be superhuman in some cases. In the newer venues with only a few people, its easy, and quite soon you build up a fololowing because p[eople like the fact that the teacher has sought them out and they come. But then it becomes a victim of its own success and there are too many people for the teacher to get around to...

    Also the teacher is either male or female, which certainly in the case of a male teacher (apart from in scotalnd) then that excludes half of the punters before the teacher has even started. Simon Borland (allegedly - although it might be simply that he likes having lots of women) addresses this by having three or more demo's who whilst taking turns at demo-ing, come every week and dance with the men .... Quite simply Simon expects it of us !

    I know ESG is frustrated at Muswell Hill that he can't get around and dance with everyone, now that the number are increasing.... double edged sword stuff !!

  5. #25
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    If a teaches is simply someone who teaches because they are employed to teach, then fine; no problem in them teaching and buggering off. However; most teachers I know were dancers before they were teachers and love to dance - After they have taught, why not stay arround and dance?

    For someone like Franck, the teaching is just a way to help people have fun and enjoy themselves - the only thing that changes from when he is on stage teaching to when he is dancing with someone is that he decides what would make the person infront of him happiest or help them get more out of their dancing. Perhaps that's one of the main reasons all the teachers up here dance with everyone?

  6. #26
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M
    I think it is a MUST that teachers dance with their students - Graham LeCerk always did when I was learning, it not only gave me confidence it also ironed out any (or most) bad habits before they become set.

    .
    Though bringing history up to date Graham's demise eventually was his lack of customer satisfaction which was led by Grahams reluctance to dance with punters.

    Not that I don't rate Graham as on of the best teachers I've known.

    Always great inventive moves

  7. #27
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by drathzel
    Oh and i do all the asking as nobody likes to ask the teacher!
    The first couple of years I danced, I was never once asked by the teacher. Eventually I plucked up courage and asked - and wished I hadn't! It would have made a huge difference to my confidence if the teacher had appeared more supportive of keen beginners - he used to dance with a few favoured (advanced) dancers, then disappear. Thankfully, subsequent teachers have been far more supportive but I think they favour beginners rather than intermediate dancers.

    As a complete beginner, dancing with very good dancers was certainly wasted on me as I found them intimidating, I was easily confused by their
    different dance styles and didn't follow well enough to appreciate their creativity. It was probably most helpful to me to dance with intermediate leaders with a clear lead, who could dance on the beat and made me feel relaxed.

    However, now I really appreciate dancing with leaders who make me think, and challenge me beyond what I already know how to do, and, hopefully, give me some feedback. A dance with the teacher might be one of the few chances in some evenings I get to do this, so I value it just as much as when I started dancing.

    Sorry guys, you'll just have to start wearing your underpants on the outside of your trousers.

  8. #28
    Registered User Piglet's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alice
    Good point. HOwever, I don't think anyone is necessarily putting forward the idea that the teachers dance exclusively with the beginner punters- if they danced with punters from a mixture of levels including at least a few beginners each night it would be a good start...
    Yep - again, the Aberdeen teachers do this. They are happy to dance with all of the group - beginners, intermediates and those beyond intermediate level - they also dance with both guys and girls

  9. #29
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    As a complete beginner, dancing with very good dancers was certainly wasted on me as I found them intimidating, I was easily confused by their
    different dance styles and didn't follow well enough to appreciate their creativity. It was probably most helpful to me to dance with intermediate leaders with a clear lead, who could dance on the beat and made me feel relaxed.
    Ok this is the bit I don't get. There's a quote that surfaces every now and then that really good dancers can dance with anyone and make them look good. Surely teachers are in an ideal position to dance at a level that matches the student and then help to gently raise them up. Frankly Drathzel made me look far better than I am when we danced

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    Sorry guys, you'll just have to start wearing your underpants on the outside of your trousers.
    You haven't met The Wacko yet then

    Be Well,
    Christopher

  10. #30
    Ceroc N.I. Franchise Owner drathzel's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost
    Ok this is the bit I don't get. There's a quote that surfaces every now and then that really good dancers can dance with anyone and make them look good. Surely teachers are in an ideal position to dance at a level that matches the student and then help to gently raise them up. Frankly Drathzel made me look far better than I am when we danced
    Thanks

    I dont know if thats the case, a lot of people feel they dance worse with teachers, even if they "look" better, and therefore dont like/wont dance with/ask them to dance!

    Even i get nervous dancing with teachers, and i am one!

  11. #31
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by drathzel
    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by drathzel
    I dont know if thats the case, a lot of people feel they dance worse with teachers, even if they "look" better, and therefore dont like/wont dance with/ask them to dance!

    Even i get nervous dancing with teachers, and i am one!
    Ah but I have a cunning plan....

    From the First impressions thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost
    Drathzel – I remember thinking “Remember - she’s just a dancer, she’s just a dancer – oh WOW!”
    For obvious reasons picturing you in your underwear was not going to be very helpful - I'd just kinda stand there going .


    Christopher

  12. #32
    Ceroc N.I. Franchise Owner drathzel's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost


    Ah but I have a cunning plan....

    From the First impressions thread


    For obvious reasons picturing you in your underwear was not going to be very helpful - I'd just kinda stand there going .


    Christopher
    where did you get that quote from. why havent i seen it?

  13. #33
    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by drathzel
    where did you get that quote from. why havent i seen it?
    Main thread

    My post

    I'm not the only one saying nice things about you

    Christopher

  14. #34
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    In Bristol, we have the majority of teachers who will dance with anyone and one who will only dance with his favourites.

    I teach now on an intermittant basis and I will dance with the 'punters' afterwards. Some of them I know, some of them I don't. Some of them try to run away, but I catch them

    At one venue, I am paid hardly anything at all and another one, quite a lot. I don't do it for the money though (although, trust me, I would like to!), I would just like to pass on the information that has been passed onto me.

    As for teachers in London, in my limited experience, I have encountered the ones who will only dance with their favourites and even when asked, will find an excuse not to dance, then on the next track get up with a favourite.

    I found it very disheartening when I first started dancing and really feel for those that have reported back that this has happened to them also.

    Elaine

  15. #35
    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB
    As for teachers in London, in my limited experience, I have encountered the ones who will only dance with their favourites and even when asked, will find an excuse not to dance, then on the next track get up with a favourite.
    How limited is your 'limited' experience? I could slag off all Bristol teachers by saying they have green skin and webbed feet (in my limited experience) but I've never actually been to Bristol, so it wouldn't mean much.

  16. #36
    Registered User Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo

    How limited is your 'limited' experience? I could slag off all Bristol teachers by saying they have green skin and webbed feet (in my limited experience) but I've never actually been to Bristol, so it wouldn't mean much.
    Her experience of London teachers might be be limited; but her experience of dance, I would say, has very limited boundaries. She is a very challenging lady and even the mighty ESG might meet his match. She has every excuse to be a lady hotshot, and yet, nevertheless, on the strength of an introduction, has made a point of dancing with this lowly forumite.

  17. #37
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    How limited is your 'limited' experience? I could slag off all Bristol teachers by saying they have green skin and webbed feet (in my limited experience) but I've never actually been to Bristol, so it wouldn't mean much.
    I say 'limited' as I wouldn't want to 'name and shame' either the venues or the teachers. Have you a better way of getting this point across?

    I taught at the venerable 'Kingswood' in Bristol on Wednesday night and Steve most definitely doesn't have green skin, or webbed feet!

    Elaine

  18. #38
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB
    I taught at the venerable 'Kingswood' in Bristol on Wednesday night and Steve most definitely doesn't have green skin, or webbed feet!
    Yeah, but admit it, Elaine - Steve IS the exception!

    (He's more turquoise. And it's the ones south of the river who have webbed fingers.... )

  19. #39
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Actually, and to get back on topic, I've been made most welcome up here by Franck. He definitely dances with his punters.

  20. #40
    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Teachers dancing with punters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard
    .. yet, nevertheless, on the strength of an introduction, has made a point of dancing with this lowly forumite.
    Leaving aside your false humility for a second, I'm pleased to hear it, although of course I'd expect nothing less.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB
    I say 'limited' as I wouldn't want to 'name and shame' either the venues or the teachers. Have you a better way of getting this point across?
    Actually I do. 'Name and shame' as you put it: put up - or shut up. Otherwise you unfairly tar every teacher in London with the same brush.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineB
    I taught at the venerable 'Kingswood' in Bristol on Wednesday night and Steve most definitely doesn't have green skin, or webbed feet!
    Let's see: teachers in and around London that I know dance with all their students (still limited experience of dance in London, but maybe less limited than yours) are: George, BillCo, Bex, Amy, Lee, Howard, Carol, Jo, Simon Borland, Mike, Paul Alloway at Uxbridge, Ruth, Clare and Tim. Oh, and Dan and Russell at Ceroc Greenwich. Who did you have in mind to criticize while also insulting all these people?

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