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Thread: Lead & follow vs solo routines

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    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Lead & follow vs solo routines

    I'm sure we've had this before but I'm being frustrated by the search so what the hell.

    Elaine's class at the BFG and Joseph & Sadie's class tonight have recently forcibly brought it home to me that I am absolutely crap at following any kind of a solo routine. And I don't really understand why: I'm relatively quick to pick up intermediate moves as a lead (remembering them is another matter and another thread). I'm also usually a reasonably competent follow with most leaders (with still masses of room for improvement, as always).

    Somehow, I can see and understand a solo routine, but there is an error in translation that I can only describe as a lack of connection between brain and body. If I can lead (a bit) and follow (a bit more), and string together a set of moves with a partner, why the hell can I not do it 'on my own'? - even the simplest stuff just seems to elude me

    Is there some technique/way of learning that I might be missing? Perhaps it's just a mental block, I dunno

    Other people's experiences please?

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    It lives!

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    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    Is there some technique/way of learning that I might be missing? Perhaps it's just a mental block, I dunno

    Other people's experiences please?
    Ok the energy is different. You are in effect dancing with yourself, or possibly the spirit of the room depending on your perspective.

    Ever seen the Karate Kid? "Wipe on, wipe off". Try just repeating a simple movement over and over again. Then another movement. Then gradually chain them into sequences. I find it's important to feel the flow of energy within you as you do the moves (and for me also the surrounding energy) as there simpy is no connection to a partner.

    Another possible solution is to do the beginners Ceroc moves on your own in the same way. Then do them with your eyes closed.

    Dance in beauty,
    Christopher

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    Registered User FirstMove's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    Other people's experiences please?
    I know exactly what you mean. In my case I think it's lack of practice. Every week I learn 7 intermediate Ceroc moves (and probably forget 10).

    In my dance career so far (3 years), my only solo dancing attempts have been choreographed routines on weekenders. These contain perhaps 10 interesting things and I've done maybe 6 such classes so far, so 60 moves seen once v. about 400 ceroc moves seen many times.

    Evil dancers like Lou always manage to break away and leave me standing about like a lemon while they strut their stuff. I can't help but revert to Nightclub no-step .

    If I was about 8 yrs old, I'd do some street dancing classes. Instead, it's just me and some weekender DVDs.

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    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    I think the key difference is that dancing in a couple, you have an audience of one, and you are only really performing to him or her. In a solo routine you have no partner to concentrate your energies on – it's just you versus the world.

    So, I'd guess that it's natural performers (or those who have learnt to perform) who will do the best in a solo routine.

    When I'm having difficulty in a solo situation, and if I can, I'll often close my eyes, blocking the world out. With an apparent audience of none, I find it easier to "strut my stuff."

    Anyone agree?
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

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    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    When you have a partner you have someone that you can hide behind -- even if its only metaphorically

    SpinDr

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    The Gobby one! WittyBird's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    It lives!
    Good to have you back LMC
    Missed you

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    Registered User Feelingpink's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    My theory is that most solo routines are made up of basic steps and variations on them. The more you do solo dancing, the more you repeat the same steps and they become ingrained. If you are just starting, your body doesn't have the knowledge that others might have (from years of ballet as a child/aerobics classes - whatever). The only way you will get better is by doing it over and over again. I think it's also one of the reasons that dancers do isolations - each bit of the body gets to move in a series - so that when they have to do, say, a left shoulder twitch, it's already used to moving on its own in a particular way.

    The woman teaching street dance at my gym was a professional dancer. If she was 'just' teaching the steps, all of us in the class pretty much were following. When she ran it "to speed" i.e. about three times as fast, I couldn't follow at all. After a few weeks, some of the steps would be similar to those we learned in an earlier class - usually with a different body movement and different arms etc, but there was an overlap. I was still rubbish, but there was improvement.

    If it's any consolation, the teacher said that no-one remembers all of the routine all of the time when it's new. The trick in going to an audition (apparently) is to be next to someone who is not as good as you (so you look spangly) but who remembers the bits of the routine that you don't, so you can copy.

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    Registered User Gojive's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    I'm in a similar position to you LMC.

    I'm at a reasonable level of MJ, but I look and feel like Dad Dancing if I attempt anything solo

    I put it down to the fact that I got into dancing through partner dancing, and so that's where my heart lies. Deep down, I really don't want to dance solo I guess, and it shows if I try.


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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by Feelingpink
    My theory is that most solo routines are made up of basic steps and variations on them. (etc)
    I agree with all this. I'm scared to think how many times I've been taught a first move now, and it's pretty engraved, so variations on it are much easier than they would be from scratch. Most solo dancing also has basic steps, and variations on those basic steps. They're different basics, so if you've only practiced one, you won't be so comfortable with the other, though there's a big chunk of overlap.

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    Fake ID to promote Lindsay's events Dorothy's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by Gojive
    I'm in a similar position to you LMC.
    I'm at a reasonable level of MJ, but I look and feel like Dad Dancing if I attempt anything solo


    Solo routines sort out the men from the boys

  12. #12
    Donna
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi
    When I'm having difficulty in a solo situation, and if I can, I'll often close my eyes, blocking the world out. With an apparent audience of none, I find it easier to "strut my stuff."

    Anyone agree?

    Or better still, get the VODKA down ya!!!!! Having done linedancing for 10 years, I'm extremely confident in dancing this form of solo dance in front of loads of people. However, when I was learning a new form of solo dance and having to do it in front of an audience, it was the complete opposite which had an effect on how I was doing it. (making mistakes and not being able to focus 100%)

    It's all down to CONFIDENCE as to why you can't perform on your own. Just cast your mind back to when you started ceroc. You feel a tad nervous and lots of questions cross your mind like don't they? Like ... 'am I doing this right? Does it look stupid? Are people laughing me? etc etc etc. But once you become experienced in Ceroc you find you become more confident with it and not afraid to let yourself go and strut your stuff and it's the same with any other styles you wish to try. It takes a while.

    Doing a solo workshop (on a MJ weekender) with loads of other people standing around you of course feels odd, but they are in exactly the same boat as you. It's an experience. I'm sure a lot of them have never done that style before either, but what is more important is that it's a bit of fun and it doesn't matter if you go wrong. It's a learning experience and besides it's just nice to try something different. Also, it may encourage you to look for classes in modern dancing and this will certainly help you to express yourself more confidently on the dance floor.

    I find Strictly Dance Fever has helped me, and of course having done linedancing certainly has given me a head start. So would I feel nervous doing a bit of solo dancing in workshop/freestyle/showcase? Nope, not at all.
    Last edited by Donna; 18th-May-2006 at 03:31 PM.

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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    I must admit that I enjoyed the solo workshops the most at the BFG.

    As a beginner to ceroc with no other dancing experience I find that when I'm dancing with someone much better than me I get nervous, seize up & dance very badly - must be something to do with not letting down my partner. However, when dancing solo there are no nerves & I find it easy!!

    Mind you Ceroc still beats any other kind of dancing so I'm just going to have to work on those nerves!!!

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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by Feelingpink
    My theory is that most solo routines are made up of basic steps and variations on them. The more you do solo dancing, the more you repeat the same steps and they become ingrained. If you are just starting, your body doesn't have the knowledge that others might have (from years of ballet as a child/aerobics classes - whatever). The only way you will get better is by doing it over and over again.

    I think it's all down to practice... and also natural talent of course (which means practice when natural dancing talent has forgotten you - like me ).

    Up to about 2 years ago, I had no coordination whatsoever between my legs and my arms. When I was at uni, I went to an aerobic class with some of my friends and I was kind of the reference in the room about how un-coordinated your limbs can be, which used to make my friends laugh at lot .
    However I believe that since I started dancing a lot (ceroc; tango, salsa):
    - 1, my confidence in my dancing abilities has improved (I used to see myself closer to a bulldozer than to a dancer );
    - and 2, my solo dancing has improved too: as a direct result of 1 (thinking that I can actually dance a little and not look like an uncoordinated bulldozer anymore - well, hopefully ) and me better understanding the musicality of a track.

    So if you ask me, that's all down to practice, practice and practice.
    Yes I am still feeling unconfortable doing solo routines, I was struggling to follow Mel's routines at the BFG workshops (I still have that uncoordination between my legs and arms on some more complicated moves ) but h*ll have I improved! There was NO chance at all that I would have been anywhere close to be able to do those routines 2 years ago.

    Attending those solo routines at the BFG was pushing myself outisde of my confort zone, but it was well worth it and I know that this has helped to improve my dancing.

    So ... good luck with practicing hun

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    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Thanks all - interesting feedback.

    Ironically, I coped better with the solo routines at last September's Southport than I have with more recent ones. It's not a memory problem - I know what I'm supposed to be doing, it's the co-ordination that I'm struggling with. Well, I was the one that got chucked out of the one and only tai chi class I ever did as well (oooh, years ago now - I was holding everyone else up by being so thick and was 'tactfully' told to watch and practise the simple stuff in the corner ). It's not really a confidence thing - I'm old enough not to worry whose watching in a workshop where, as others have said, you're all more or less in the same boat. Part of the problem with these at a weekender is lack of sleep of course

    Given that my solo dancing has got worse, not better, I guess balance/posture come into it as much as co-ordination - intuitively, even if you're in control of your own balance, weight distribution and posture a good connection with a dance partner is bound to have an impact on all those things - different "application" (struggling with trying to word that concept...)

    More solo stuff needed to 'balance' my skills maybe (Caro, I reckon you're right and it's practice). Was thinking that a street dance class might not be a bad idea if I can track one down which caters for people over about the age of 12.

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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    Ironically, I coped better with the solo routines at last September's Southport than I have with more recent ones.

    Given that my solo dancing has got worse, ....

    I think it's nothing to worry about, just natural cycles.... whatever the dance; I have those cycles where sometimes I feel have gone a step further; sometimes I am just plateau-ing and sometimes I feel like it's gone worst...

    I am sure it's all part of the learning, don't think many people have a regular continuous learning curve that goes straight up




    EDIT: didn't realise that was my 100th post !

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    Registered User Ghost's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    Well, I was the one that got chucked out of the one and only tai chi class I ever did as well (oooh, years ago now - I was holding everyone else up by being so thick and was 'tactfully' told to watch and practise the simple stuff in the corner ).
    Bad teacher . No such thing as being "held up" in Tai Chi. You're gonna spend a lifetime working on the basic moves - no harm in spending a whole lesson on one basic move.

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    Was thinking that a street dance class might not be a bad idea if I can track one down which caters for people over about the age of 12.
    http://www.greenwichdance.org.uk/eve...=4&eventid=105
    or click here

    Be Well,
    Christopher

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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Hi LMC

    i have been dancin from since i can remember and i personally love doing solo routines i find it easier cause all i have to worry about controlling is myself which is hard enough to do
    i enjoy doing partner dancing as well but it is all new to me!

    hope you get on ok wiht watever classes you do!!

    vicky

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    I learnt solo dancing as a kid, (Ballet and tap etc.), so was more used to dancing on my own and learning routines. (it's amazing how ingrained some of that stuff has remained)

    But when i first started Ceroc, I found it very difficult 'not' to learn the four moves as a routine and would often dance the followers part under my own steam, even if the leader got lost and stopped, i'd carry on and finish the move off on my own Cringe

    So, I wouldn't worry about it, it's not always a good thing.
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  20. #20
    Donna
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    Re: Lead & follow vs solo routines

    Quote Originally Posted by Vicky
    Hi LMC

    i have been dancin from since i can remember and i personally love doing solo routines i find it easier cause all i have to worry about controlling is myself which is hard enough to do
    i enjoy doing partner dancing as well but it is all new to me!

    hope you get on ok wiht watever classes you do!!

    vicky
    I'm sure you'll pick it up quickly having done years of solo dancing. Look at these dancers in SDF. Most of them are solo dancers, but do a good job of it because they know how to carry their own weight and throw lots of styling in whenever they get the chance to.

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