Ceroc X category

[Gadget]

So what about the Ceroc X event? Was it a success? Would be interested to hear how it went, if it worked, and what people thought of it.

Ceroc X was really good. I totally admier the guys that entered this along with over catorgries It must be really difficult to only do the beginners moves Fair play to all that etered they were great!!

Mike Ellard mentioned when announcing the results that two couples had been disqualified from Ceroc X - presumably for performing illegal moves, but it wasn't clear whether it was two couples in the final, or two couples overall in the category.

Hey Guys!!! As a Ceroc X finalist (hoorahhhhh!!), I can clear this up for you.

There were 5 couples in the final as you know. 3 were placed and the other 2 were disqualified for illegal moves. Me and Craig being one of the disqualified couples. We will never know for sure where we were placed prior to disqualifcation but lots of spectators commented how it was "in the bag" when we left the floor. It's always nice to hear these comments but I don't want to take anything away from those who beat us to it as it was a very hard round indeed.

Trying to compete with Intermediate moves one round and then going into beginners was really tough as you always go to do a dramatic end with a drop or something. Musical interpretation had to all be about style rather than moves and to me, that was a challenge. But I really enjoyed this catergory. More so than the intermediates. You knew that the moves were not going to be challenging and therefore listening to and "feeling" the music was a must.........it felt kind of like when you do your own "thang" in the kitchen and you are just going with the flow.

I loved it!!!!!

We are pleased that we got through to the finals as it is a first for us! If they decide to run it again next year we will enter again. For sure.
The move that we think let us down was a first move. Instead of coming out of it with a turn, I walked out of it I think(minor point but that is what the challenge was with this round and therefore we refuse to feel robbed!). Taz might be able to explain this better. If anyone else noticed any intermediate moves please let us know what we did!

So, hats off to my wonderful Craigiebabie who lead me so well and managed to concentrate on the beginners moves so well. Love you babe

to anyone who competed in this: just wondered how fine a line there was between a "beginner" move and any other move?
Eg...
If you 'bounced' a first move so you did the step back twice - is that an intermediate move or two first moves?
Does every move have to start and end with a step back?
Do you have to put returns in-between every move?
Can that return be traveling?


I don't envy the judging in that.

[Andreas]

To all participants!

As Gadget, I am rather curious how a beginner move is qualified. Considering these moves already vary between franchises, let alone countries, do the competitors get a list of permissable moves including description?

[ducasi]

As Gadget, I am rather curious how a beginner move is qualified. Considering these moves already vary between franchises, let alone countries, do the competitors get a list of permissable moves including description?

This was discussed in the original Champs thread.

The beginner moves do not vary between Ceroc UK franchises – or at least they shouldn't. This allows the Ceroc beginner's DVD to have not only all the moves that are taught across the country, but the same actual routines too.

The rules of the competition have a complete list of permissible moves.

[Gadget]

But in order to actually contain some musicality, you must be able to vary some elements like timing - but isn't inserting a double-speed bit in a move an intermediate thing? (or half-speed)

[doc martin]

Also...

...what percentage of moves do you have to do off the beat?

...how many bounces of the hand per bar are required?

...how many times per song do you have to stop and scratch your head?

...what happens when a break occurs? If you stop is that an intermediate move? Or an intemediate not move?

More seriously, I would love to have seen this. I am sure talented dancers can make even the simplest of moves look classy and I could learn a lot from watching how they do that.

[Dan Hudson]

for the move to be allowed it had to have the correct structure.
eg. the first move..

step back, stee in, twist lady out.. lead lady back, turn and return. you could pause or hold for two beats but had to continue with the whole structure of the move.
This applied to all the moves allowed.

does this make sense .. hope so

it looked incredibly hard and even having just completed my beginners teacher training and dancing nothing but beginner moves for about 2 months I struggled to hold it together for an entire track.... hence I didn't enter!!!

[Andreas]

How is style judged? I can think of a number of style elements that can't really be considered moves but are reasonably advanced in their execution.

[Gadget]

for the move to be allowed it had to have the correct structure.
eg. the first move..

step back, step in, twist lady out.. lead lady back, turn and return. you could pause or hold for two beats but had to continue with the whole structure of the move.
This applied to all the moves allowed.

does this make sense .. hope so

Yes - a bit

Did it matter which foot the lead stepped back with on moves like the basket or first move?
Are the return and the step back actually part of the structure of the move?
If you put a ronde into the first move, is that still a basic move?
If you led a comb with left hand on hip instead of on top of the arm, is that still a comb?
If you led a 'push-spin', would the couple be disqualified if the follower did a double? What if they slowed it down and did a hip-wiggle turn over a couple of beats?

[Dan Hudson]

Yes - a bit

Did it matter which foot the lead stepped back with on moves like the basket or first move? nope, either foot, probably dropped marks for it, but not disqualified
Are the return and the step back actually part of the structure of the move?yes, but linking the moves together you could lop of a return..eg before a comb to prevent 2 anti clock turns in a row.
If you put a ronde into the first move, is that still a basic move? IMHO yes
If you led a comb with left hand on hip instead of on top of the arm, is that still a comb?, yes, but as long as it is a comb, not a comb variation.
If you led a 'push-spin', would the couple be disqualified if the follower did a double? What if they slowed it down and did a hip-wiggle turn over a couple of beats? double spins and so called double returns were allowed

any use??

[Ghost]

How is style judged? I can think of a number of style elements that can't really be considered moves but are reasonably advanced in their execution.

I'll have to wait for the dvd - but I assumed this was the whole point. That a skilled dancer can still use basic moves, but by applying advanced concepts make them look . You'd have to stick with concepts eg timing, rather than movements eg rondes, though.

Otherwise it implies that the beginners moves are kinda pointless except as some kind of test to be allowed into the intermediate class
(Only when you have completed 6 weeks and can lead a first move on ricepaper without breaking it can you join the hallowed ranks of the intermediates )

I'd be interested in what others thought the reasoning behind Ceroc X was?

Take care,
Christopher

[robd]

I'd be interested in what others thought the reasoning behind Ceroc X was?

I think there was discussion on it a while back - I am sure someone nice will provide a link.

I was surprised watching CerocX to see so little use made of the cerocSpin given that it would provide opportunity for some show-off double spins for the lady (and perhaps even a spin for the man if that would be allowed?)

I think Mike Ellard was possibly a little disappointed with the field that Ceroc X drew (meaning no disrespect to those who did enter myself) as he mentioned once or twice in his voiceover during the rounds that it was open to all levels of ability and he especially wished to see more teachers entering next year.

Robert

[Robin]

I was surprised watching CerocX to see so little use made of the cerocSpin given that it would provide opportunity for some show-off double spins for the lady (and perhaps even a spin for the man if that would be allowed?)

Specific allowable variations were listed on the website and a man spinning on a cerocspin is not one of them. I would also point out that the speed of the tracks used in CerocX also limited what moves you would do. Personally I wouldn't do a freespin (cerocspin) type move on a faster track... so I didn't.

If you haven't tried it, you should dance to a few fast tracks using beginners moves only - count how many times you slip up - methinks the longer you've been dancing the harder it is as your autopilot just sort of cuts in.

[Bubbalou]

I'll have to wait for the dvd - but I assumed this was the whole point. That a skilled dancer can still use basic moves, but by applying advanced concepts make them look .

Yes this was the point you are right.

Craig and I were obviously very dissapointed to get disqualified in the finals especially as we were some peoples favourites (thanks rob et al!!) But we are taking it on the chin as..........like you said..........that was the whole point!! (To only dance beginner moves) Thought I'd get some rep for that but hey ho!!

I loved that category and I think that next year will see a very different approach to this and I doubt we will be in with any chance of winning.

I really hope that Ceroc decide to keep this in. Might I just add that Craig and I were actually more nervous dancing this category than the intermediates as the quality of dancers around us was very high. So hats off to add and congrats to those who got placed!! Not at all jelous of that cup!!

Lou xx

[Katie]

I liked the idea of this. A chance to show musicality and style, rather than moves. The way Ceroc hyped this, I was looking forward to it but I was a little disappointed by the lack of musical interpretation. (I luurve to be musical when I can!) I appreciate that the second track was extremely fast and I think that it was inappropriate for that particluar category. Awaiting to be flamed now!

Judging by the standard of the intermediate this year, I think Ceroc would benefit with a beginners/improvers category. Just a thought.

[DavidB]

I wasn't too sure about it. It seemed like a war of attrition - the winner is the last to get disqualified. (The Bruce Willis competition - Last Man Standing)

I think it could develop into something really good, but not in its current format. If you want to attract beginners, then make it a beginner competition. If you want musical interpretation, then mark it 100% on interpretation. If you want a technique competition, then relax the rules more, slow down the music and let the competitors show what they can do. And if you just want a moves competition, don't allow any variations.

A competition like this is supposed to be fun, not difficult.

[jezzyjj]

I liked the idea of this. A chance to show musicality and style, rather than moves. The way Ceroc hyped this, I was looking forward to it but I was a little disappointed by the lack of musical interpretation. (I luurve to be musical when I can!) I appreciate that the second track was extremely fast and I think that it was inappropriate for that particluar category. Awaiting to be flamed now!

I gather from chatting to Robin that 'Bei Mir Bis Du Schoen' was used, now seeing as if you were to employ any musicality you wouldn't jive to that track by choice, but you'd Lindy to it as it swings so nicely. I tried jiving to it, but by ignoring the rhythm, it felt like I was dancing out of time - horrid.
It's challenging only doing basic moves but using a track that that if you understood music and rhythm you wouldn't even use jive in the first place in a bit daft.
One of the main reasons I don't do competitions, stupid music choices. If I entered a rhumba competition, I wouldn't expect to hear a waltz being played.

I thought this would be an interesting category to enter as I like the basic moves and think they are undrated, but I gather the style I use to make moves look nice would disqualify me. I always step forward on a first move, not back as it's better for many reasons and a major part of my style of dancing, but one is not allowed to do that so out I'd go out within seconds.

[ducasi]

I gather from chatting to Robin that 'Bei Mir Bis Du Schoen' was used, now seeing as if you were to employ any musicality you wouldn't jive to that track by choice, but you'd Lindy to it as it swings so nicely.

Assuming you're one of the less than 1%* of MJ dancers who also know Lindy...

I've seen MJ dancers with bags of musicality "jive" to this song without any problems.

* My estimate.

[Bubbalou]

I've seen MJ dancers with bags of musicality "jive" to this song without any problems.

.

Me and Craig????!!!! Or so we were told.

I thoroughly enjoyed the track. Totally!!! And it did sort out the wheat from the chaff.

I disagree that it is meant to be fun but not difficult. It was fun but the difficulty of it made it interesting. If it was easy then what would be the fun in participating or spectating?

This wasn't a beginners category, it was (I think? ) more about musciality and style.

I love to hear so many different opinions on this, it's excellent and why this forum is so fantastic!

Lou xx

[Cruella]

I really quite fancy giving this category a try. I think a stylish intermediate dancer would probably stand a better chance than an advanced dancer. The advanced dancer would find it so much more difficult to not use his 'showy' moves, whereas an intermediate will still be using a lot of the beginners moves in his freestyle dancing.

[Minnie M]

I gather from chatting to Robin that 'Bei Mir Bis Du Schoen' was used, now seeing as if you were to employ any musicality you wouldn't jive to that track by choice, but you'd Lindy to it as it swings so nicely. I tried jiving to it, but by ignoring the rhythm, it felt like I was dancing out of time - horrid.
It's challenging only doing basic moves but using a track that that if you understood music and rhythm you wouldn't even use jive in the first place in a bit daft.
One of the main reasons I don't do competitions, stupid music choices. If I entered a rhumba competition, I wouldn't expect to hear a waltz being played.

As one of "the less than 1%* of MJ dancers who also know Lindy" ducasi states, I can honestly answer this.

Dancing with a MJ dancer to swing music is hard for the first 10 seconds, then you switch off and listen to your lead as well as the music - it is very challenging but also fun. You can even put the ocasional 'twist twist' in it, providing you keep to the first move and don't try and do a swing out Any good and experienced MJ dancer can adapt to any music - that's what makes them a good dancer