£57 with a Discount card (what a good idea)Originally Posted by TA Guy
that is £28.50 per person - that aint bad - it doesn't say how long they are ?
Under £20
£20
£25
£27
£30
More than £30
Just noticed that Ceroc Central (who are in a market dominant position) as only charging £25 for Val and Dave to do a Blues Improvers workshop. Seems good value for money. Given that Ceroc Central could probably charge what they want given their captive customer base, I'm surprised they didn't charge more, especially considering it must be costing them a lot more to run the workshop if they are bringing in Ceroc's top Blues couple.
£57 with a Discount card (what a good idea)Originally Posted by TA Guy
that is £28.50 per person - that aint bad - it doesn't say how long they are ?
--ooOoo--
Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)
Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
That date is recognized as her official birthday.
£30 for 4-5 hours, whether it be a Beginners workshop or a 'Howard & Nicola' type thing.
Originally Posted by Minnie M
Wow, didn't know you could use the discount card, I use those.
It is a good idea, ten nights for £57 brings the cost of any class night or freestyle nicely down, and on top of that, they do a 'ten visits, get one free stamp card', which you can use as well and makes it even cheaper.
Can't complain about the value of class nights or freestyles down here
The normal ceroc central workshops are £30 per person but they are limited to around 6 couples max. and you get a teacher and a demonstrator for 5 hours with 30 to 40 minutes for lunch. Yes it is quite expensive, but we are talking about a pretty small group here - not 30 or 40 people and you do get over 4 hours of solid teaching.
As to the quality of the teaching - quite a few of the ceroc central ones are taught by Emma P or Alex F. so they certainly have a national reputation. That said the quality of the teaching is in my experience pretty high even if not taught by Emma or Alex. The workshop I did today actually had two qualified teachers present.
At the Beach Ballroom weekend just finishing now, each 2-hour workshop with Val & Dave was £20.Originally Posted by Gus
I paid £35 pounds for two workshops and the Saturday freestyle, worth £10.
Bargain, huh?
Standard workshops in the Ceroc Scotland franchise cost £25.
Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story
Originally Posted by GusHow many workshops have you been on in your 6 months of dancing Lost Leader?Originally Posted by Lost Leader
I've never been to a Ceroc Central workshop where there were only 6 couples - no where near as few!
The last workshop I did up here was actually Val and Dave's Blues workshop last September and there were ~ 25 couples there. This was the most well run workshop I'd attended up in this neck of the woods (indeed anywhere) and I wouldn't hesitate in recommending them . . . that's Val and Dave (not Ceroc Central)
I actually wanted to edit my last post so that it says 10 couples rather than 6. I just did a workshop which had 10 couples and that was apparently a fully booked workshop with no spare places available. The previous workshop I did also had a similar number of couples - certainly nothing like as many as 25.
I suspect that things are differrent when there are special guest teachers - then I can see the numbers attending being higher as was the case for the blues workshop you refer to but I would be surprised if as many as 25 couples was now the upper limit for their normal workshops - that is on the basis that the two I have been to recently have only had around 10 couples and the workshops are normally fully booked or nearly so.
For 'local' workshops the limit is usualy 10 couples, but should be a lot less if you are teaching drops or aerials.Originally Posted by Lost Leader
For visiting stars its usual about 20 couples, though up to 25 couples is not unusual as the organisers try to recover the higher costs. the trouble is that once you have 25 couples ir more it starts to be less of a workshop (with personal attention and feedback) and more of a class.
Of course, the value all depends on the subject matter and how well the instructors communicate it. As a club instructor, one of my big bugbears is local instructors teaching very poor drops and 'style' workshops and me having to correct the poor buggers who keep on trying to do these cr@p moves at our venues. Anyone want to try to do a traveling body roll? NOT a pretty sight.
Wow. How lucky these people are that you are there to correct them Gus. Where would they be without you?Originally Posted by Gus
Have you ever thought about becoming a Ceroc teacher yourself? Then they could all just come and pay you in the first place, and not learn everything so badly.
Why become a Ceroc(tm) Teacher ... again? I thought LeRoc was taking over the world .... at least that what Lou said.Originally Posted by Blues Dancer
Been on two work shops one was free. Going on another thats going to be free to
So me thinks there good value
I've only ever done one workshop up here that wasn't even worth £25. I walked out of that room feeling as though I never really learnt much. I'd pay up to £50 for a workshop with Amir, Nigel & Nina or even Viktor no problem, as I know I would learn a lot more from them and it would also be enough to use for competitions.
Seems to me most dancers would get more from a local workshop with only 10 couples, (where they'd get maybe 20 minutes individual attention during a 4 hour workshop) as opposed to a "star" workshop with 25 couples.Originally Posted by Gus
One thing to bear in mind is "How good does the teacher need to be?". And it partly depends on how good the student is. Is someone like me really going to get significantly more from a WCS class if it's taught by Robert Cordoba as opposed to any of our local WCS teachers? Whereas I do benefit from getting a top coach when it comes to aerials.
Agreed. And don't forget that just because someone is good at a subject doesn't always mean they are good at teaching it. A lot of people are good at drops and lifts because they are strong. But if they teach you their technique, it's not going to help you if you don't have the strength to go with it.Of course, the value all depends on the subject matter and how well the instructors communicate it. As a club instructor, one of my big bugbears is local instructors teaching very poor drops and 'style' workshops and me having to correct the poor buggers who keep on trying to do these cr@p moves at our venues.
I agree. I find it much better if there is less people in a workshop (although the person who's running it wouldn't say that) At least then you get more intensive tuition and it's good if you might be struggling with certain parts too.Seems to me most dancers would get more from a local workshop with only 10 couples, (where they'd get maybe 20 minutes individual attention during a 4 hour workshop) as opposed to a "star" workshop with 25 couples.
Depends what level you're at. If it's a beginner/intermediate, they might find it easier learning off a local teacher, but somebody like Robert Cordoba I'd imagine would be the sort (being a pro) that teaches quite fast and also teaches advanced moves. I guess somebody at that level is one who people tend to trust more and feel they might learn better from. I'm very fussy when it comes to being taught by people. My ballroom teacher was one top 12 in the world so I feel like I can totally trust him and he is just a total genius! His way of teaching is very clever and he really goes into depth. He's really helped me and I just love having lessons with him. (Plus he's a really funny character -not sure he actually realises it either!- He takes his dancing so seriously he can't stand watching the dancers moan and bloody groan on SDF and it winds him up so much he starts swearing like mad! )Is someone like me really going to get significantly more from a WCS class if it's taught by Robert Cordoba as opposed to any of our local WCS teachers?
Agreed. And don't forget that just because someone is good at a subject doesn't always mean they are good at teaching it.
Hmmm any tips on aerials Dave? PM me if you have... cheers!A lot of people are good at drops and lifts because they are strong. But if they teach you their technique, it's not going to help you if you don't have the strength to go with it.
Originally Posted by Donna
I have been to a few of Robert's classes/workshops and it partly depends on the class he is teaching. You can see him amend the class as it goes as he gets a feel for the overall ability of the class. I have seen other professional teachers do the same thing.
I've been in classes where the basics are taught to make it really difficult for those attending and have gained a huge amount.
The skill of the teacher like Robert is how easy he makes it sound and how fun it can be.
Ahhh... does that mean you're gonna start offering LeRoc workshops in the North? Fab! (Mind you, young Barry has taken my place as the Forum LeRoc Evangelist these days).Originally Posted by Gus
I'm actually looking forward to Saturday, as I'm teaching for the first time in about a year - a beginners' LeRoc workshop with Sherif. I'm trying to remember my proper Bristolian LeRoc footwork!
Both (I think I did 2) of the CC workshops I've done have been demonstrating moves, not teaching. This works OK at a beginner level, where all you really need it repetition, but not at improver or above. It does seem that the average punters don't care, and are happy to pay whatever it takes on the basis that £30 for a day's entertainment is not too expensive.Originally Posted by Lost Leader
I don't see the better teachers being overwhelmed by potential atendees, who are probably looking at a much wider range of events etc. to spend their time on - which is why they seem unable to charge much of a premium. If I go to Oxford or London for a workshop (on the basis that the freestyle afterwards will be good) that's already a significant extra travelling cost as well!
Sean
On checking I have had it confimred that Ceroc Central's normal workshops (£30 per person) are indeed now limited to a maximum of 10 couples which means you should get some individual attention in a 4 hour workshop.
Special ceroc central workshops with guest teachers are unlikely are unlikely to be limited to just 10 couples but the cost will generally be lower (£20 to £25 per person) depending on the length of the workshop. Some of the Daventry weekender events also have blocks of workshops which can be good value for money.
In addition to absolute numbers of attendees, whether there is effectively a single teacher and a demo*, or two teachers may be significant in terms of individual attention.
* The demo sometimes can be a high quality teacher in their own right but still simply acting as a demo. On the other hand I guess a nominal demo may act as an effective teacher.
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