Floorcraft and Muggles

[timbp]

Recently I went on a short cruise with a group of cerocers. We had lots of fun.
The dance floors were very sticky, and very crowded.

At one stage I was dancing with a woman and concentrating more on how to keep within our space than on anything else. and a woman next to me said to me and my partner "careful, people are trying to dance in here". I hadn't bumped her or her friends during the dance. My partner says she never bumped anyone duiring the dance. The person who complained to us was dancing with a group of friends in a circle within which my partner and I could have danced without bumping any of them.

I will read and disagree with any posts that say my partner and I were in the wrong.

For other posts, what are your arguments? Even if I accept that I or other cerocers had forced this woman out of her dance space on an earlier occasion (I dont' think we did, but we were a bit aggressive claiming dance space the first night), was her attitude appropriate, given we hadn't touched her, and she had more reserved space than we were using?

More generally, what should people expect dancing with muggles? We are taught floorcraft (even if we don't assimilate the lessons), but muggles go with what seems reasonable to them. And as they generally dance in just one small square, it's easy to recognise their space. Whereas in ceroc we tend to take whatever space is availabe at the time

[Donna]

[QUOTE]

At one stage I was dancing with a woman and concentrating more on how to keep within our space than on anything else. and a woman next to me said to me and my partner "careful, people are trying to dance in here". I hadn't bumped her or her friends during the dance. My partner says she never bumped anyone duiring the dance. The person who complained to us was dancing with a group of friends in a circle within which my partner and I could have danced without bumping any of them.

Well if the person complaining was dancing in a bloody circle with a girl of her friends, they shouldn't have been doing that in the first place!!! She's got some cheek!! I'd have told her straight up that this is a ceroc venue, and if you want to dance with a group of your friends, then go and do it in the corner, not in the middle of the dance floor getting in everybodys way. They don't own the dance floor! I've experienced this before too, and can't STAND it!

[timbp]

[QUOTE=Donna]

Well if the person complaining was dancing in a bloody circle with a girl of her friends, they shouldn't have been doing that in the first place!!! She's got some cheek!! I'd have told her straight up that this is a ceroc venue, and if you want to dance with a group of your friends, then go and do it in the corner, not in the middle of the dance floor getting in everybodys way. They don't own the dance floor! I've experienced this before too, and can't STAND it!

I guess I wasn't clear. This was not a ceroc venue.

This was a standard cruise, with a group of cerocers 32 of us among 1900 total passengers. That is, we were vastly outnumbered. Generally we took over about a quarter of one dance floor, starting from one corner and working in. I dont' take this woman's comments as directed at me personally, but at the whole group of us (I just happened to be closest).

[Donna]

[QUOTE=timbp]

I guess I wasn't clear. This was not a ceroc venue.

This was a standard cruise, with a group of cerocers 32 of us among 1900 total passengers. That is, we were vastly outnumbered. Generally we took over about a quarter of one dance floor, starting from one corner and working in. I dont' take this woman's comments as directed at me personally, but at the whole group of us (I just happened to be closest).

Ah ok... I got the impression it was one of those dance holidays. I don't know why they were complaining. They should have cleared the floor and watch!

[Andreas]

The problem is that a lot of people who go in a group in a pub and 'dance' are in fact on the prawl. Probably not all of the group but not all of the group will complain. By dancing close to them and obviously dancing more entertainingly, they feel 'threatened'. After all, you distract potential candidates, instead of looking at them they will see you. We used to get that a lot in NZ and subsequently tried to find corners to dance in rather than right next to muggle dancers.

[Tessalicious]

Difficult to know what to do in that kind of situation. Sometimes it is better to make sure that you and your partner are able to break apart and dance solo, near each other, should space become a real problem, particularly when the general floor-filler classic songs are played (some of which aren't really MJable anyway).

Had I been in your shoes, I probably would have been so offended at the woman saying "people are trying to dance" (implying that what you were doing wasn't her idea of dancing at all) that I probably would have had to drown my sorrows for a few songs, then return to the dancefloor in a state of mind where I didn't care how much room I took up...

I don't know why they were complaining. They should have cleared the floor and watch!

Um, no. To be honest most non-dancers don't get that much of a kick watching others dance*, even good dancers, unless they have specifically gone out for that purpose. Just because we have learnt to dance doesn't mean we have the right to expect others to make space for us or watch us and applaud, unless they decide they want to do so.

*unless, of course, it's two girls dancing together in a club full of men - that usually gets quite an audience

[timbp]

Ah ok... I got the impression it was one of those dance holidays. I don't know why they were complaining. They should have cleared the floor and watch!

Many of them did, and were given free passes to a class for their trouble.

Overall, the group got many more positive comments than negative (I just happened to get one of the negative ones).

[Donna]

Um, no. To be honest most non-dancers don't get that much of a kick watching others dance*, even good dancers, unless they have specifically gone out for that purpose. Just because we have learnt to dance doesn't mean we have the right to expect others to make space for us or watch us and applaud, unless they decide they want to do so.

Was kiddin. Wouldn't expect people to clear the floor either. Everybody is entitled to some dancing space. I've gone around a few clubs and done MJ a couple of times (after a few drinks that is!!!) and of course to non-dancers, it looks good! Plus we cleared the dance floor! Was great!

[TiggsTours]

I've danced in plenty of muggle clubs before, and sometimes you get this response, sometimes you don't. It could be anything to do with how jealous she was at how great you looked to how much alcohol she had consumed. Also, they don't understand about floor craft, how can someone who is spinning around all over the place at all sorts of speeds possibly know what is going on next to them? Whereas, we all know its more likely to be the other way round.

I find the best thing to do if someone does say anything like this is to apologise (even though you're not at fault), explain that you hadn't realised you had bumped into them, to which they will probably say that you haven't yet, so then you can explain that you're not going to, because you're watching your space, then I'd stop for a few tracks, do some muggle dancing, dance with them, have some fun with them, then actually ask them if they'd like to dance and start leading them round the floor!

If you're nice to someone, they find it very hard to not be nice back.

[Donna]

It could be anything to do with how jealous she was at how great you looked to how much alcohol she had consumed.

I think both! (Would blame the alcohol more though! )

Also, they don't understand about floor craft, how can someone who is spinning around all over the place at all sorts of speeds possibly know what is going on next to them?

Especially if they're totally plastered!

[Dreadful Scathe]

keep within our space than on anything else. and a woman next to me said to me and my partner "careful, people are trying to dance in here".

It could be she thought you were arrogant for 'fancy' dancing and that was her expression of indignation. The assumption of some is that dancing is really difficult and that you must be showing off if you do it. I find that if you look serious all the time it doesnt help with that impression If i find people looking too interested, I siddle off to the edge of the floor and do blues moves till they stop watching.

I heard that the famous Brian, of Edinburgh taxi dance fame, was once on the receiving end of a "who does he think he is" comment for his dancing. And this is the most nervous guy Ive ever seen in a competition. The concept of arrogance is alien to the man

[MartinHarper]

Normal dancers are much less tolerant of collisions and near misses than MJ folks. We've become desensitised to near misses because they happen so much more often at MJ events than at muggle events. Normal dancers tend to drink and dance more, so they prefer a larger safety zone. Normal dancers tend to establish a space/territory within which they are dancing, rather than moving around the room randomly (as MJ) or along the line of dance (as ballroom).

We are taught floorcraft

We are?

[philsmove]

if there was 32 of you (1.7%) and 1900 (97.3%) of them and you are taking up a quarter (25%) of the floor –maybe just maybe they have a point

roll on the day when Ceroc rules the world and muggel dancing is banned

Someone will now point out, I have got my maths wrong

[Gladrags]

On a slightly more amusing note, I have been moaned at in the gents (yes men do occasionally talk in there) about the amount of grief the muggle men are getting from their muggle girlfriends along the lines of "why don't you dance like that", or "perhaps we should try".

[Ghost]

Normal dancers tend to establish a space/territory within which they are dancing, rather than moving around the room randomly (as MJ) or along the line of dance (as ballroom).

Following on from this, at Ceroc I've noticed more experienced dancers will often dance a lot closer to me than I'd like, simply because they're more confident / accuate about how much space they're moves are going to take up. You might have been thinking "plenty of space, no worries" they might have been thinking "that nearly hit me "

The other thing that springs to mind is unless you were Bluesing, Ceroc usually takes up a lot more space than muggle dancing and there's a lot more elbows etc flying around. I can see someone not used to this getting edgy.

Or you know, they could just be bad people

Be Well,
Christopher

[Petal]

To be honest most non-dancers don't get that much of a kick watching others dance*, even good dancers, unless they have specifically gone out for that purpose. Just because we have learnt to dance doesn't mean we have the right to expect others to make space for us or watch us and applaud, unless they decide they want to do so.

We've been to a number of non mj events, where we danced mj, and have only had positive comments. People do watch, usually because the're curious, then the've asked us what it is and where they can learn. No we don't take over the dance floor and if it's busy with muggles dancing we tend to dance at the side of the floor. Sometimes the muggles try to copy what we're doing.

But i know what was mean't about "them dancing in a circle" i think it's the same as the "dancing round the handbags thing".

[Gadget]

Had I been in your shoes,...

Had I been in his shoes, I would have liked to have come back with some quick and witty response like "I know; you may be trying to dance, but we actually are dancing" and performed some sort of flourish/dip.

Unfortunaly, I seldom am that quick and would probably just gone "really?" and looked over her head to the rest o the dancers with a puzzled expression.

When 'muggle' dancing, I tend(ed) to "claim my space" and had lots of techniques to avoid other folks and prevent myself/my space from being invaded by anyone else. Lots of presence, some rooting of the feet, some 'broad' moves, stomping,...
I think that muggle dancing is a lot like kelp - rooted and moving to the currents of the music with all the other seaweed. MJ is more like a chaotic school of fish, moving in and out of each other's way, going with the varous ebbs and flows of the music.

[TiggsTours]

The other thing that springs to mind is unless you were Bluesing, Ceroc usually takes up a lot more space than muggle dancing and there's a lot more elbows etc flying around.

I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I find that I tend to get bumped into and pushed around far more whenever I've been muggle dancing than when I've been at a MJ event. Muggle dancing tends to involve drunkenly jumping around, with very little regard for anyone around them, whereas MJ tends to involve sober (mostly) controlled dancing, with some forethought as to where your next move will place both you and your partner, so involves alot less bumping.

[Donna]

I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I find that I tend to get bumped into and pushed around far more whenever I've been muggle dancing than when I've been at a MJ event. Muggle dancing tends to involve drunkenly jumping around, with very little regard for anyone around them, whereas MJ tends to involve sober (mostly) controlled dancing, with some forethought as to where your next move will place both you and your partner, so involves alot less bumping.

I think in MJ you tend to get that bit more space than you would muggle dancing anyway. Even though I've done MJ in a club, it's surprising just how much space you have to do it as people shift slightly to one side rather than get an elbow in the face. It's even better when you clear the floor!

[CJ]

I don't know what anyone else thinks, but I find that I tend to get bumped into and pushed around far more whenever I've been muggle dancing than when I've been at a MJ event. Muggle dancing tends to involve drunkenly jumping around, with very little regard for anyone around them,

TT,

I didn't have you down as a "Mosher"!! (ask Baruch!!! )