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Thread: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

  1. #41
    Registered User Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    [quote=Mr Cool]
    Quote Originally Posted by cleveden boy
    Personally, I'd struggle at the moment but how about Kevin & Carla dancing to Bei Mir Bist Du Schon which hits 200 bpm (broadly in line with Sing Sing Sing), they appear to have no trouble & I wouldn't question their musicality for a moment.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...circle&pl=true

    (and yes I do note that they use more than just triples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cool
    Hi thanks I loved the Video clips such talented dancers.
    Great musicality which i think is key to any dance, I just love flash foot work that fits the music.
    I didnt see many rock step, triple step, step step triple steps, Ha
    That's the best lindy I've seen to date. Really fun and funky, and no hint of the dreaded bounce.

    I might just manage to do something to that slower section towards the end.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cool
    I didnt see many rock step, triple step, step step triple steps, Ha
    Well, I saw more triple steps than I saw single steps. I don't think they'd have looked any smoother if they replaced the triples with singles - quite the opposite, in fact.

  3. #43
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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cool

    I didnt see many rock step, triple step, step step triple steps, Ha
    The first thing that Kevin does is lead a 6 count basic step rock step triple step triple step (modified by left foot tapping wide but it's still a triple). After 23 seconds he leads a 6 count change places & those feet of his are doing things that I'd describe as triple steps. At 30 seconds there's a very stylish lindy turn variant - 8 count pattern using triples. There are many more examples.

    Again all I can conclude is that you are talking about is that badly performed triple step patterns look bad, which I agree with completely. But I think you're missing a point somewhere. When we begin learning to triple step most of us lurch from foot to foot. After a bit of practice that smooths down into eventually minimal movements (this is where I think I am now). Those who've gone a bit further gain confidence and their triple steps can be more intricate - if they choose , but it's still on the same timing - they are after all still dancing on the beat.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cool
    I didnt see many rock step, triple step, step step triple steps, Ha
    As a note, Kevin is tending to use a slightly different style for his rock step... this is still Lindy, and quite common among some of the more talented Lindy dancers I've known... but there is still a lot of the basic Lindy structure there.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjay
    That's ok, my Lindy is pretty rusty (it has been 4 months), and I think I've danced bal only once or twice, so really, wha do I know...

    In saying that I had a lovely dance this evening which was a combination of Lindy & Modern Jive.... it was lovely.
    You didn't happen to be lucky enough to dance with Ania, did you? If not, look her up! She is a fabulous dancer. Neglected her MJ a bit in favour of Swing but terrific musicality, possibly best in NZ, and you need to see her on the loose doing fast Swing! Ania used to dance and last year also started teaching for Paul Tanuvasa at Waitakere. Now that he has jumped boat I am not sure if she is still there or has move over to Le Bop, too.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjay
    As a note, Kevin is tending to use a slightly different style for his rock step... this is still Lindy, and quite common among some of the more talented Lindy dancers I've known... but there is still a lot of the basic Lindy structure there.
    Nothing basic about this guys dancing. Top Class.
    Swing for me is about musicality style and footwork not regimented bouncy routines we see so often

  7. #47
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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    You didn't happen to be lucky enough to dance with Ania, did you? If not, look her up! She is a fabulous dancer. Neglected her MJ a bit in favour of Swing but terrific musicality, possibly best in NZ, and you need to see her on the loose doing fast Swing! Ania used to dance and last year also started teaching for Paul Tanuvasa at Waitakere. Now that he has jumped boat I am not sure if she is still there or has move over to Le Bop, too.
    Is that how you spell Ania name... I though it might be Anya, or Anja... yes, she is fantastic, if you've been reading my thread on the CMJ forum about dancing in Auckland you'll see me referring to "two new favourite Auckland dancers," she is one of them. She is dancing with Le Bop now, and has a 6mo daughter Emily.

    Had a lovely dance with her the other night - combination of Lindy & MJ .

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by pjay
    Is that how you spell Ania name... I though it might be Anya, or Anja... yes, she is fantastic, if you've been reading my thread on the CMJ forum about dancing in Auckland you'll see me referring to "two new favourite Auckland dancers," she is one of them. She is dancing with Le Bop now, and has a 6mo daughter Emily.

    Had a lovely dance with her the other night - combination of Lindy & MJ .
    Polish origin, hence the different spelling.

    Great, you certainly met the best female dancer around Akl. Say hi if you see her, please.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas
    Polish origin, hence the different spelling.

    Great, you certainly met the best female dancer around Akl. Say hi if you see her, please.
    I will certainly say hi for you next time I see her.

    And given that she is rating very highly on my enjoy dancing with, I will probably be looking for opportunities

  10. #50
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    I tend to 'feel' musical timing rather than consciously think about it too much so I'm not speaking with much knowledge here...
    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    Much "non swing" music does have a "feel" that swung triples work with e.g. "Feel Good Inc" but "Sway" by Michael Buble I find difficult as the Cha Cha Cha rhythm is so strong. That may be because I'm learning Cha Cha Cha as well so that bit of the wiring in my brain is getting agitated. .
    I overheard the local Lindy beginners class being taught that 'the triple in Lindy is the same timing as the cha cha cha'. I don't know why but this felt wrong to me. Is it? And can someone explain why?

    And I thought I heard somewhere that Swing music has 16 beats to the bar and that is what makes it 'swing'?

    I'd love to learn more about the timing of music and learn some theory to help me understand the 'feel' that I have.

  11. #51
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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    I tend to 'feel' musical timing rather than consciously think about it too much so I'm not speaking with much knowledge here...I overheard the local Lindy beginners class being taught that 'the triple in Lindy is the same timing as the cha cha cha'. I don't know why but this felt wrong to me. Is it? And can someone explain why?
    'cause it's wrong

    A cha-cha-cha has a symmetic split, i.e. 0.5 beat, 0.5 beat, 1 beat.

    A (jive) triple-step has an assymetric "split" 0.75 of a beat, 0.25 of a beat and 1 beat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    And I thought I heard somewhere that Swing music has 16 beats to the bar and that is what makes it 'swing'?
    Nah, it's four-four (4 beats to the bar).
    A lot of swing is based on a swing chorus AABA -- where each A or B is 32 bars (four lots of eight beats).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    I'd love to learn more about the timing of music and learn some theory to help me understand the 'feel' that I have.
    Well, a bit brief, but might be a start to have a look at http://www.afterfive.co.uk/guide/lat...ce_styles.html -- it does try to explain the musical structure of some of the key dances.

    Cheers,
    SpinDr.
    Last edited by spindr; 16th-April-2006 at 12:56 AM.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    The 16 beats that Lynn is touching on may not be entirely daft though - Saxylady keeps reminding me of 4 bar sections in swing music which would be 16 beats - keeping track of those is part of the key to improving musically (but I haven't mastered that yet!)

    WRT the triple being the same as the Cha Cha Cha - oooo nooo. As they're beginners though this may explain their confusion

  13. #53
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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    The 16 beats that Lynn is touching on may not be entirely daft though - Saxylady keeps reminding me of 4 bar sections in swing music which would be 16 beats - keeping track of those is part of the key to improving musically (but I haven't mastered that yet!)
    I can't quite remember what it was I was told, will check. It was a someone who understands music and he was explaining why different music had different feels - to do with the structure of the music, what beat the drummer marks etc. But its all fairly new to me, thinking about music in that way, rather than just instinctively.

    Thanks guys for explaining the why the cha cha timing felt wrong - to me it just felt like the cha cha cha are all equal length, wheras the triple step isn't. It gives a totally different feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    WRT the triple being the same as the Cha Cha Cha - oooo nooo. As they're beginners though this may explain their confusion
    No, this was the teacher who was teaching the beginners. I think he's figured out that its not the same now, at least I hope so!

  14. #54
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    OK, I was wrong with my recollection of 16, it was 12 - as in 4 beats to the bar, each beat split into 3 - therefore 12. Something called compound timing.

    And that's what makes it swing. (Apparently. I also told about what makes music rock and where you put the emphasis on different beats etc but I've still a lot to learn!)

  15. #55
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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    OK, I was wrong with my recollection of 16, it was 12 - as in 4 beats to the bar, each beat split into 3 - therefore 12. Something called compound timing.

    And that's what makes it swing. (Apparently. I also told about what makes music rock and where you put the emphasis on different beats etc but I've still a lot to learn!)

    Kind of - it's not written in compound time and the pulse is four crochet beats in a bar, but the swung quavers (of which there would be 8 in a bar) are played with the feel of compound time - like a nursery rhyme rhythm - "Jack and Jill went up the hill", for instance. "Jack-and-Jill" being the triple step timing.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxylady
    Kind of - it's not written in compound time and the pulse is four crochet beats in a bar, but the swung quavers (of which there would be 8 in a bar) are played with the feel of compound time - like a nursery rhyme rhythm - "Jack and Jill went up the hill", for instance. "Jack-and-Jill" being the triple step timing.
    Furthermore in slower tracks each crochet can be split into 3 in compound time (=>12 bts/bar) "jack-and-a-jill..."

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsay
    Furthermore in slower tracks each crochet can be split into 3 in compound time (=>12 bts/bar) "jack-and-a-jill..."
    That would be (I think) more of a 12 / 8 blues, where you do hear three distinct taps per beat - not sure which dance is best for that sort of music - any ideas?

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Just to add - "Feeling Good" (Buble) is an example of that style of music.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxylady
    That would be (I think) more of a 12 / 8 blues, where you do hear three distinct taps per beat - not sure which dance is best for that sort of music - any ideas?
    I think what Lindsay is saying is what my friend was describing as he said it was 12/8 time. So that's not swing then?

    Thanks for the info btw.

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    Re: What makes a swing dance 'swing'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    So that's not swing then?

    12 / 8 time is not the same as what we call swing (which is 4 / 4) - 12 / 8 has an underlying pattern of four sets of even triplets per bar.

    For instance, your first bar of swing time might go:
    one, two, three-and-four (step, step, tri-ple step)

    your first bar of 12 / 8 would feel more like:
    one-and-a two-and-a three-and-a four-and-a

    Whether one could dance a swing style dance to it is another matter - I find it difficult myself and end up just doing a made up kind of hybrid dance instead.

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