How do ladies improve their dancing?

[Clive Long]

A friend asked me what she needs to do to become a "better" dancer.

All I could think of was "private lessons" and "dance a lot".

Got me thinking though (steady! steady!)

A man can go to lessons and learn moves,styling, musicality and all the topics we warble on about.

But, it seems to me, a woman is vulnerable to whatever the man throws at her - apart from a few seconds of styling if she is given the space and time. If he is a weak or sloppy lead she can't improve. Any amount of technique lessons for her won't help unless the woman has a "frame" upon which to dance.

So what is my friend to do?

Mark out the more accomplished male dancers and be ruthless in her pursuit of them?


Ta,

Clive

[TheTramp]

Watch other female dancers that she likes the style of, and try to copy what they do. Not necessarily everything, just the bits that she likes. These are also the people to ask for private lessons (if they are teachers).

Practise.

Dance with the better dancers.

[LMC]

Like Lynn (except I got to this thread first ) I have realised (although probably not quite as quickly as she did ) that the route to becoming a better dancer as a follower is *not* more moves.

The one private lesson I had with DavidB was invaluable and focussed on frame, connection, lead and follow. I'm still working through a lot of it.

And FWIW, my advice to her in terms of workshops would be "forget the moves ones" - head for style and technique workshops, and even, depending how long she has been dancing, "taster" workshops in other dance styles which might give her an insight into style and technique.

And as already said, dance with as many people as possible. Especially the better dancers.

How long has she been dancing?

She will (if she isn't or hasn't already) go through a stage where dancing with beginners is just frustrating and not enjoyable. Brutal, but true. I've only just got past this - for me, it was the point at which my dancing was good enough that you're really aware of their limitations - limited moves, jerky lead, etc etc. But not yet good enough that firstly that I could totally relax and follow the lead - whatever it is (the best feedback possible - dancing with beginners is now improving my following, not limiting it) and secondly, to relax and multi-task - e.g. I can now dance with a beginner and still follow nicely with only half my mind on the following and the other half on, for instance, using my spare arm - so I don't get bored or frustrated

For better freestyling, practice is the only real answer IMO.

[TiggsTours]

It has been a long running bone of contention for me that there are no advanced classes that are really aimed at women, and very few teachers who do consider them, but there are a few around, and I have been to some great classes that have taught me alot. Nina is superb with thinking of women, and Cat, and musicality classes with Joseph & Trisha are superb as they don't actually teach you moves at all, just how to move to the music.

To improve women really need to concentrate on following technique, dance with better dancers, try different dance styles, watch other women, dance as much as possible and not be scared to experiment! Problem with experimenting is that, you might think what you're doing is great, but it might look awful!

She will (if she isn't or hasn't already) go through a stage where dancing with beginners is just frustrating and not enjoyable. Brutal, but true.

This is so true too, but I also find that taxiing really helps my dancing, trying to explain to a (good & interested) beginner why you didn't follow something makes you think about your following so much, there are so many times that a move has gone wrong, and I've tried to talk it though and had to really think about why I didn't follow it properly to explain what was wrong with the lead, then I go to dance with a good dancer, and suddenly pick up that I've actually been following something wrong all these years, and not noticed till then. I'm not suggesting that she takes up taxiing (although I'd never discourage it either) but maybe working through with a patient friend just why she didn't follow something right might help her to see what went wrong, and adjust it in future.

[Ghost]

Re-invent the wheel. Not everyone's cup of tea, but there's a lot of elements you can pull from non-dance disciplines eg the state of no-mind from the japanese arts.

Break the moves down to their smallest elements and then see how she dances them; first clean them up, then feel the subtleties and how changing x affects y.

Learn how to balance the level that she's dancing at with the person she's dancing with. Balance dancing slightly better than the lead when dancing with beginners and gradually lift them up with her, rather than starting from some unattainable position. Likewise practice letting better dancers lift her up and explore what it is she's doing differently that makes it a better dance.

Oh yeah - never, ever forget to have fun!!!

Hope that helps
Christopher

[ducasi]

It has been a long running bone of contention for me that there are no advanced classes that are really aimed at women ...

Interesting you say that. In Franck's series of "Focus On..." workshops, I'd say that much of the balance has been towards helping women become better dancers – though it is pretty well balanced.

Often though, when he talks about style or musicality, he puts the emphasis on what the girl can do – typically because guys have more to concentrate on just leading and so there's greater scope for the ladies to bring their own stuff to the dance in this area. (Plus, women pretty much always look better than men when it comes to style...)


My suggestion for women wanting to improve their dancing is first to work on their connection – frame, feedback, balance, isolation, all that stuff; then their style (no point in looking stylish if it messes up the dance.)

[Lynn]

Like Lynn (except I got to this thread first ) I have realised (although probably not quite as quickly as she did ) that the route to becoming a better dancer as a follower is *not* more moves.

I had to do my ironing, what'd I miss?

I'll admit I got to the 'I don't want to learn just moves, I want to learn to dance' bit fairly quickly (a month or so), but to be honest it was really a complete lack of classes for nearly two years that helped me realise that my dancing could improve without learning any new moves. (Well, I hope its improved over the past couple of years...) For me its all been about - trying to be a better follower (let the lead worry about the moves, watching and learning from more stylish dancers, trying other dance styles and trying to understand a bit more about technique and freestyling as much as possible when I did get the chance (ie weekenders).

In all I think the 'lots of freestyling with good leads' has been the most beneficial (for me).

[Lynn]

And FWIW, my advice to her in terms of workshops would be "forget the moves ones" - head for style and technique workshops, and even, depending how long she has been dancing, "taster" workshops in other dance styles which might give her an insight into style and technique.

And as already said, dance with as many people as possible. Especially the better dancers.

To improve women really need to concentrate on following technique, dance with better dancers, try different dance styles, watch other women, dance as much as possible and not be scared to experiment!

[Alice]

Watch the advanced dancers dancing with beginners (how do they still manage to look fantastic???)

And practise. A lot. I think for us it's a lot about style (and developing our own style as well as just copying from others) and working on connecting with your partner so you can follow anything that gets thrown at you.

She could also work on playing/improvisation (this depends a bit on who she's dancing with), and balance- the better balance you have the less likely you are to be put off by a less-than-perfect lead. Or that's my theory anyway.
And it helps with spinning

I do a lot of watching the advanced girls, taking note of how they move, what makes them look good, different ways of improvising etc. I think it helps to pick a few whose style you like and then keep trying out things you see them do- doesn't always work but after a while it becomes part of your own repertoire, and gradually you start developing your own style.

Seeking out the more advanced males to dance with helps cos they're more likely to try out more difficult moves on you, and use a subtler lead... all of which helps Plus they might give you some good tips (he he he)

[Jeremy]

Seeking out the more advanced males to dance with helps cos they're more likely to try out more difficult moves on you, and use a subtler lead... all of which helps Plus they might give you some good tips (he he he)

From what I've seen of the girls improving their skill level, dancing with the more advanced guys seems to pull them up pretty quick. But it does get to a point where they have to do the hard work themselves and invest the time, effort (and money?) in working on style and more personal techniques like balance.

In Australia many styling ideas can be found in routines, so the more routines you do the more styling ideas you end up with in muscle memory. So I'd suggest sign up for any of the routines that are around in the UK to pick up new ideas (think Tramp has/had a routine going??)

[Piglet]

(think Tramp has/had a routine going??)

Yep he sure has/had!

He's already taught one group in Dundee and aiming to teach a second in Glasgow sometime. Can't remember the dates but know its on here somewhere under a thread started by Cheeks looking for a dance partner. (Makes mental note to go look for it to get the dates cos I need more practice!)

[TiggsTours]

Interesting you say that. In Franck's series of "Focus On..." workshops, I'd say that much of the balance has been towards helping women become better dancers – though it is pretty well balanced.

That's great, shame he's not teaching in Harrow! I did say that there are some, but very few and far between.

[Asif]

A friend asked me what she needs to do to become a "better" dancer........

Who is she Clive? As well as all the really great and useful comments already made, make sure she dances with the guys who you think are really good dancers and are also patient (and don't mind talking through or showing how certain things should be done if needed).

I met a girl at Beach Boogie last year who had been dancing for a while but was totally flummoxed when we first danced. She had no idea about using her tension to follow (rather than just doing the moves she thought i was trying to lead), "playing" or about doing "shines" (when the lead sends you out and then lets you take over for a while to do your own thing). She really wanted to learn so i spent some time showing her various things and also experimenting with moves. I didn't mind cos it's great when you get someone who really wants to learn and they are improving because of something you showed them. Now, she is a dream to dance with never stops playing!!!

If she is ever in the same place as me, point her out and i will glady have a dance or three.

[Anna]

A friend asked me what she needs to do to become a "better" dancer.

All I could think of was "private lessons" and "dance a lot".

Got me thinking though (steady! steady!)

A man can go to lessons and learn moves,styling, musicality and all the topics we warble on about.

But, it seems to me, a woman is vulnerable to whatever the man throws at her - apart from a few seconds of styling if she is given the space and time. If he is a weak or sloppy lead she can't improve. Any amount of technique lessons for her won't help unless the woman has a "frame" upon which to dance.

So what is my friend to do?

Mark out the more accomplished male dancers and be ruthless in her pursuit of them?


Ta,

Clive

Private lessons to polish her dancing, dance with leads better than she is, watch other more advanced women dance and try out pieces of their styling that she likes.. if it works for her, keep it n if it doesn't, scrap it and try the next bit..

also, other forms of dancing may help her ceroc. depends what kind of look she wants her modern jive to have.

[Rebecca]

But, it seems to me, a woman is vulnerable to whatever the man throws at her

. . and that's how you become a "better" dancer IMO x

[Andreas]

There has been said a lot in this thread so I'll keep it short: learn a dance with footwork, e.g. Rumba, ChaCha, even Salsa. I think in particular a good Rumba is absolutely invaluable for any partner dances!

[Msfab]

There has been said a lot in this thread so I'll keep it short: learn a dance with footwork, e.g. Rumba, ChaCha, even Salsa. I think in particular a good Rumba is absolutely invaluable for any partner dances!

Err... thats your favourite dance isnt it?

[Andreas]

Err... thats your favourite dance isnt it?

Yeah, it is. But that doesn't change my statement.

[Donna]

To improve women really need to concentrate on following technique, dance with better dancers, try different dance styles, watch other women, dance as much as possible and not be scared to experiment! Problem with experimenting is that, you might think what you're doing is great, but it might look awful

!

I agree. Being able to follow is the most important thing to learn first. What is the point in trying to throw in some style if you can't follow first? It will just end up looking like a fight on the dance floor rather than dancing. Once you become more experienced and are able to follow anybody, then it takes a while to train yourself where to throw style in when you get a chance to do it. I find I struggle with men who do more double handed moves or keep you close all the time as there is not much you can do there, but dance with a more experienced dancer who knows a whole variety of different and exciting moves, you find it a lot easier.

When I'm dancing with a beginner, I can't throw much style into it..not because it its difficult, but because it will put the beginner off. I just follow. It's about giving them the time to improve too.

I think once you become more confident the best thing to do (as well as experimenting) is to actually film yourself. This really does work. You will be able to see what looks wrong and how you can improve it. Once you've done that, then film yourself again and again until your satisfied with the way it looks. Also, like you said, watching your favourite female dancers help but it doesn't mean to say you will look just the same...but then you most probably wouldn't want it to look the same because people might just start commenting on the fact that you are copying so and so. Best to change it and again, lots of filming and private lessons.

P.S Taking up ballroom definately helps too!