Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

[Lynn]

I try to make my classes like a conversation - when I am teaching well my material is constantly modified in response to the class.

That's a very important part of teaching. I always end up doing some modification of material I am delivering in response to the group I am teaching. In fact if I wasn't I probably wouldn't enjoy teaching anywhere near as much as it would just be rattling off a prepared speech.

Been thinking about this in the context of dancing and for me the point of the demo is to give the learners an overview of what is going to be covered in the class so that they know roughly where the class is going - especially for those learners who like the 'big picture' approach to learning.

Could an alternative to a demo therefore be a verbal 'today we are going to teach some moves which will help us learn about X' rather than actually showing the exact moves? This would allow flexibility for the teacher to change the details of the class and respond to the class needs but also give learners an approximation as to where the class was going.

[DavidY]

Been thinking about this in the context of dancing and for me the point of the demo is to give the learners an overview of what is going to be covered in the class so that they know roughly where the class is going

I've been reading with interest the responses from those who prefer not to demo.

One issue I have with this is when as a punter, I don't know what I'm going to get, especially at a weekend event when more than one class is on at the same time.

For instance suppose I'm at a weekender and at a particular point I have the choice between Amir's class and Dancing Teeth's. Obviously both great teachers with a great reputation, but if I haven't been to many of their classes before, how do I know which one to choose?

Some sort of demo at the start could help me make up my mind to stay in a particular class or to switch to the other one. Even if the exact moves aren't the same as happen later in the class, a demo would give me a pretty good idea of what's coming up and help me to make an informed choice.

[LMC]

If I have an experienced teacher, I just trust their judgement.

except it's not the teacher I don't trust, it's some partners - I still don't like being "surprised" by finding there is a drop in the routine when I'm in a regular Ceroc intermediate class, as some intermediates are simply not up to leading the move safely, and I'm not good enough myself to be able to compensate for that 100% of the time. If I could be guaranteed no drops in any class/workshop, then I wouldn't be concerned about a demo. Perhaps that's the answer :doubtful smiley: - don't demo the routine, but give a lean/dip/drop warning? - any experience of trying this?

[El Salsero Gringo]

Speaking as the 'silent' half of a teaching pair (the demonstrator - or ex-demonstrator, I should say) I think demoing the whole routine is a little show to add a bit of shine to the class. I've often been asked whether I want to demo the routine the teacher is about to teach and I've always said yes, except when for one reason or another I'm not fully confident about dancing through all of the moves on stage and making them look stylish.

[bigdjiver]

Michaela demoed the routine at the Corn Exchange freestyle last night, and it is her usual practise to demo. The class consisted entirely of new update moves that most would not have seen before. There was some risk in the routine and I am sure the demo was appreciated. In particular my first partner was a first timer. I told her that a freestyle class could be anything, and to wait for the demo before deciding whether to do the class. A few moths back A class had been on cha-cha moves, and most of us were beginners at those.

[Dancing Teeth]

However, whilst I agree entirely with Viktor because that has been my personal experience, I also accept that other teachers' experience differ from ours and hence they prefer to demo their routine at the start of the class. to them too.

What I do not accept is other people suggesting that the reasons put forward by some teachers "isn't a good reason for not demoing". Perhaps these people may wish to vote with their feet and boycott those teachers whose style of teaching they so disapprove of. I have yet to see droves of people leaving classes where the teacher did not demo the routine at the start, and I have personally never encountered an organiser or franchisee who has ordered his/her teachers to demo their routine at the start of the class. If I am asked to demo the routine at the start of the class, I have no objections to doing it. If I am not, then I don't. My decision, based on my experience and judgement, simple as that.

[Dancing Teeth]

Like Lily says, whether you demo or not I think depends on the kind of class you are teaching, and who is in it. I know some great teachers who will demo a routine beautifully and then teach every step. Whenever I demo what I plan to teach, I always regret it.

You can plan a speech but not a conversation.

I try to make my classes like a conversation - when I am teaching well my material is constantly modified in response to the class.

Since the aim of a modern jive class is to teach leaders to improvise moves in freestyle, and for followers to follow even unfamiliar movements, then shouldn't we have more classes that have less emphasis on doing routines?

On the whole, if a teacher demos the routine, they probably have a good reason for it. If they don't, they probably have good reason for that too.

If I have an experienced teacher, I just trust their judgement. If I don't trust them, then I find another teacher!

[Dancing Teeth]

That's a very important part of teaching. I always end up doing some modification of material I am delivering in response to the group I am teaching. In fact if I wasn't I probably wouldn't enjoy teaching anywhere near as much as it would just be rattling off a prepared speech.

.

[Dancing Teeth]

Why do I always change my mind when you lay down such pearls of wisdom? Am I a swine? LOL!

I think enough has been said on this; I'll sign off because We are going round in circles....

[David Bailey]

I've certainly rethought my views on this, due to the posts from various luminaries...

I still think it's an essential part of any teaching process to communicate, at the start, what you're trying to achieve in that learning session. Any teaching, anywhere.

I also think this is especially important for people who are coming to a class "cold", so that they have some idea what they'll be learning. And of course, it provides them with the opportunity to drop out if they choose, before the class starts - for example, if they have an injury.

And in dancing, I suspect the most efficient way of providing that introduction is with a demonstration - talking a routine through is much more difficult and much less likely to be remembered.

However, this may not apply in quite the same way to classes which allow a conversational and interactive format - smaller or advanced classes, or specific sessions such as workshops which are aimed at particular areas. If you're going to a Drops workshop, it shouldn't be a major surprise to find that you do one or two drops in the session. If you go to an "X rated workshop", it's maybe not a shock to see that you do some close moves.

Also, I take the point that allowing some flexibility, to cope with faster / slower learning speeds or class requirements, is a good thing and can provide a more effective lesson.

But I'm a punter, not a teacher. And for a standard (Ceroc-style) class, with say 80 people learning, some for the first time, I think it's not helpful for us poor suckers, in a standard class, if we can't see the routine at the start. It's hard enough learning moves for most people as it is, without having to also try to imagine how the whole finished product.

Now, whether "routine-based" sessions are the best way to teach MJ dancing - that's a completely separate question, and I'd be fully on board with anyone questioning that approach.

But assuming you do teach a routine, and assuming it's to a standard Ceroc / MJ class format, then yes, I'd mostly expect and want to see a demonstration of that routine; even knowing that there may be tweaks / alterations as you go.

[Gadget]

{I could have selected other poster' bits to quote, but this was about the only bit of amir's that hasn't been quoted yet }

Since the aim of a modern jive class is to teach leaders to improvise moves in freestyle, and for followers to follow even unfamiliar movements, then shouldn't we have more classes that have less emphasis on doing routines?

This is my point of asking whether a demo should be of the forthcoming routine, or a demonstration of what you could learn from the forthcoming routine.

I have seen double/tripple spins in the demo that were not taught. I have seen styling, timeing and kicks that were not taught, I have seen a demo end with a smooth, low dip, but the first thing that the teacher said was "Don't worry; I'm not teaching that move, just a little half-turn/twist." and the point was emphisised later that if you wanted to practice with someone, you could do this move (see me after the class), but it's not what is being taught and I don't want to see it while I'm teaching.

This is the escence of the (intermediate) demo to me - showing what could be done rather than what is planned to be taught and 'counting/calling' it through.

{It also can set up the teaching to slot in things like "style" and "technique" that would otherwise be missing.}

[TheTramp]

I've certainly rethought my views on this, due to the posts from various luminaries...

At least, I've thought about what certain people have had to say, and in the end, I still think that it's appropriate to demo ceroc classes before teaching them.

I don't agree that demoing a class means that you then have to be inflexible about what you teach. And if you think that you might want to be flexible, then you can introduce the demo by saying, "This is probably what we're going to teach tonight". Or announcing that you're changing it, and why when you make the change. I also believe that most people won't even notice that you've changed it, unless there was something particularly flashy in the demo, that isn't then in the teach.

I agree with Lily that there aren't going to be lots of people leaving classes because they haven't been demo'd. However, there might be lots of people leaving classes once they have been demo'd. Which is possibly a reason for some people not demoing . (Please note that I wish to make it quite clear that I don't consider it at all likely that Lily will be in this group. I have however seen (and heard about) several classes at places like Bognor and Camber, where there have been significantly less than 50% of the people who started the class left at the end!).

However, I believed that a significant majority (which has been the result of this poll) of people would prefer to see at least a rough guide to what they are about to be taught before it starts. And since we are there to give people what they want....

(I will agree that the people who completed the poll are however, not a good representation of the average person attending a class.)

I did find it interesting that the people most vociferous against demoing are people that I consider to be among the better teachers. Though I'm not quite sure of the significance of that.

And finally, of course, it's up to the people concerned as to whether or not they demo their classes.

[Piglet]

I was thinking about this one over the weekend and relating it to different learning styles...

I think that its important that the teacher and demo do the whole routine at the beginning because it works for both the people who want to see it and those who don't:

For the people that want to see the whole routine done - they can enjoy watching.

For the people who don't want to see the whole routine done - they can close their eyes or come late.

In this scenario no-one is upset.

However, in scenario 2, if you don't show a demo of the routine then you may upset one group of people - the ones who want to see it.

In scenario 1 there is no reason for all the group not to be happy. Sorted!

[Donna]

I was thinking about this one over the weekend and relating it to different learning styles...

I think that its important that the teacher and demo do the whole routine at the beginning because it works for both the people who want to see it and those who don't:

For the people that want to see the whole routine done - they can enjoy watching.

For the people who don't want to see the whole routine done - they can close their eyes or come late.

In this scenario no-one is upset.

However, in scenario 2, if you don't show a demo of the routine then you may upset one group of people - the ones who want to see it.

In scenario 1 there is no reason for all the group not to be happy. Sorted!

[LMC]

What DJ said

Most workshops/weekender classes have a clue of their content in the description. Dips and drops, Aerials, Blues (=smooth, UCP) are all obvious, even to a thick like me - in which case I'm truly and honestly not bothered about a demo. It's "nice to have", but not essential.

However "intermediate" or "fun" classes could contain anything from "nice" to "OK, I suppose" to "OMG, that is SO cheesy" or ", that's just DANGEROUS". So I still persist in wanting a demo for these. Otherwise I'm potentially going to upset more people by walking out mid-class - even if I make it clear that it's not them as a partner, it's the move, there's no guarantee that they will believe me

[Donna]

So I still persist in wanting a demo for these. Otherwise I'm potentially going to upset more people by walking out mid-class

There is this one guy I know who if is not satified with what he has seen in the demo, then he will walk off the floor. Everybody talks about him and yet, he hasn't been doing it that long, which er, oh yes...takes us back to this thread.

http://www.cerocscotland.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=7751

[LMC]

I feel slightly quoted out of context there.

If I choose not to do or continue with a class, it's not because I think I know it all (the more I learn, the more I realise there is to learn), it's because I don't like the move or consider it dangerous for me, if not for others.

[bigdjiver]

I will walk out of a class if a "tell it to the judge" move comes up.