View Poll Results: Should teachers demo routines at the start of the class?

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  • Demo weekly beginners classes at the start

    51 73.91%
  • Don't demo weekly beginners classes at the start

    9 13.04%
  • Demo weekly intermediate/advanced classes at the start

    53 76.81%
  • Don't demo weekly intermediate/advanced classes at the start

    8 11.59%
  • Demo classes at Weekenders at the start

    45 65.22%
  • Don't demo classes at Weekenders at the start

    4 5.80%
  • I like clicking on polls

    15 21.74%
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Thread: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

  1. #41
    Registered User LilyB's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    Consider this a PM asking for detailed reasons .

    Next question. Would YOU do a class, where you didn't know what you were getting before you started. Cos, knowing you, I can't believe that you would...
    Which part of 'PM' did you not understand?

    In answer to your specific question, I do that all the time (well, practically). In the USA, from my personal experience, the majority of all workshops/classes I have attended (in WCS, hustle, Carolina Shag, ballroom/latin, amongst others) did not start with the teachers demonstrating the entire routine they intended to teach. And I have never come across anyone in the class complaining that the teacher did not do so. Or refusing to do the class because the teacher failed to demo the routine first. [I speak mainly of the USA as that is where I have attended most classes, but I am not aware that it is significantly different here]. If I choose to attend a class in a particular style of dance (eg. WCS) at a particular level to suit my ability (eg. Advanced moves), it is because I want to learn what that particular teacher (eg. Mario Robau) has to teach. 100% of it (and more! ).

    One caveat though - I would not do a class if I 'didn't know what I was getting before I started'. I am always aware of what I want to learn, be it WCS, hustle, technique, etc. The actual moves themselves would not bother me - it is unlikely that I would have done them before, and even if I have, I usually find I learn something new.

    Again, this is just my personal view, as Trampy has asked me the question.

  2. #42
    The Forum Legend
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Okie. I don't doubt at all that if Mario Robau was teaching, that you would go along, and learn whatever it was that he was going to teach, without any further incentive necessary. Or any of the other teachers classes that you would actually consider attending yourself.

    But now put yourself in the situation of someone attending a modern jive class, with no other dance experience, not really knowing what they were there for. Would you want to see what you were going to be doing then? Or someone who has been doing modern jive for a few months, and is going along to an intermediate class. Or even a fairly experienced modern jiver who is going to a class they haven't attended before, and doesn't know the teacher, or what sort of class they taught. How about then?

    Because, lets face it, given those situations, you wouldn't know what you were getting before you started. And then you'd want to see what you were being taught? As per your caveat....

    And I humbly submit that it was that sort of class that we were talking about, not being taught advanced WCS by one of the 'greats'.

    And I would have sent you a PM, if I wasn't replying to you already. I figured that it didn't really make a great deal of difference. I will send you a PM asking for details if you like though...
    Last edited by TheTramp; 21st-February-2006 at 03:48 AM.

  3. #43
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    ... Or someone who has been doing modern jive for a few months, and is going along to an intermediate class. Or even a fairly experienced modern jiver who is going to a class they haven't attended before, and doesn't know the teacher, or what sort of class they taught. How about then?

    Because, lets face it, given those situations, you wouldn't know what you were getting before you started. And then you'd want to see what you were being taught? As per your caveat....
    I take Lily's point about "knowing what to expect" and agree in principle - if I know the level of the class, then the lack of a demo doesn't "distress" me, although I would still like one!

    For weekly Ceroc classes though, I agree with Rachel.

    It kind of relates to dance levels. In a Ceroc intermediate class, you have people who might only *just* be out of beginner classes as well as people who have been dancing for years. The combination of me (not confident and not a small girl), a new intermediate with little safe technique (or worse, a long-term intermediate of the type we all know and complain about, I'm not going to do so again here) and a ballroom drop is, frankly, scary*. Even if it is "the move", not the partner, dropping out of a class can be taken amiss. Even if an alternative is offered, I've had times where I've told a partner I'm not happy doing the "First Move Sit" or a seducer and had them quite angry with me for not "allowing" them to learn the "better" move. Too many men seem to take it as a slur on their strength/manhood if I tell them I'm not comfortable with a move - "You'll be OK with me" - hey, it's not you I don't trust (well, actually, sometimes it is partly, but I have some tact) - it's me.

    Weekly intermediate classes should always, IMO, be demonstrated. Oh, and if people are talking over the demo and the teaching, the teacher should perhaps encourage them to watch/listen and point out that things would go faster if they did... *cough* Finchley *cough*

    *I was in an Advanced class at Stevenage where new-ish intermediates were present and what I can only describe as a "dead man's drop" was taught - a fast drop where the only means of support for the follower is on the back of the neck. The class was demo-ed beforehand. Knowing our limitations, I (and a few others) bailed out of the class immediately. Rather too scarily, too many other people who perhaps should have bailed, didn't. Yes, I did feed back at the time that I felt that move was not ideal for that class/venue.

  4. #44
    Fake ID to promote Lindsay's events Dorothy's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    Too many men seem to take it as a slur on their strength/manhood if I tell them I'm not comfortable with a move - "You'll be OK with me" - hey, it's not you I don't trust (well, actually, sometimes it is partly, but I have some tact) - it's me.

    Weekly intermediate classes should always, IMO, be demonstrated. Oh, and if people are talking over the demo and the teaching, the teacher should perhaps encourage them to watch/listen and point out that things would go faster if they did...
    Hear hear LMC.
    Ditto all of that. I prefer to see what is being taught, and then I can make my own decision as to whether or not I wish to do every move of the routine.

  5. #45
    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorothy
    Hear hear LMC.
    Ditto all of that. I prefer to see what is being taught, and then I can make my own decision as to whether or not I wish to do every move of the routine.
    Whether or not the whole routine is demonstrated at the start - I've never been to a class where each move wasn't shown complete before teaching it. Isn't that sufficient to judge whether you want to learn it, or whether you think your partner is suitable to do it with you?

  6. #46
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Yeah, but:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel
    I find it awkward and embarrassing to drop out of a class part-way through if something comes up that I'm unwilling or unable to do. At the very least, I feel like I have to wait until I've rotated all the way round until I'm off the floor again, which could be several drops or monkey walks or choreographed rubbish later.
    Whether this awkwardness is "reasonable" or not is neither here nor there. I suspect Rachel and I are not the only ones who would feel this way.

  7. #47
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    Whether or not the whole routine is demonstrated at the start - I've never been to a class where each move wasn't shown complete before teaching it. Isn't that sufficient to judge whether you want to learn it, or whether you think your partner is suitable to do it with you?
    If ithere's a drop half way though a class -- I want to know -- I will do a different one (where I can). Otherwise, I have to drop out confuse the rotation, etc., etc. and I lose half of a class that I could have been learning something useful -- I find I can't easily change classes when they are halfway through.

    If the drop's at the beginning, I can do a quick change of class and catch up relatively quickly -- if it's at the end, I don't miss that much.

    Oh and for drop, you may as well read as lift / close move / footwork or whatever is your own particular bete noire.

    SpinDr

  8. #48
    Donna
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    If ithere's a drop half way though a class -- I want to know -- I will do a different one (where I can). Otherwise, I have to drop out confuse the rotation, etc., etc. and I lose half of a class that I could have been learning something useful -- I find I can't easily change classes when they are halfway through.

    If the drop's at the beginning, I can do a quick change of class and catch up relatively quickly -- if it's at the end, I don't miss that much.

    Oh and for drop, you may as well read as lift / close move / footwork or whatever is your own particular bete noire.

    SpinDr
    Your talking as if you mean an advanced class? I've never known a drop to be taught in an intermediate and certainly not a beginners. Usually it only goes as far as dips in an intermediate class.

  9. #49
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Trouble is, even if the class is Advanced, the attendees may not be - there doesn't seem to be a checking mechanism. The Jive Bar Advanced classes are billed as suitable only for people with more than 12 months dancing experience - but with only 8 months experience, I had no trouble getting in (or any trouble with the class as it 'appens) - and they would have been able to tell from my membership number.

  10. #50
    Donna
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    Trouble is, even if the class is Advanced, the attendees may not be - there doesn't seem to be a checking mechanism. The Jive Bar Advanced classes are billed as suitable only for people with more than 12 months dancing experience - but with only 8 months experience, I had no trouble getting in (or any trouble with the class as it 'appens) - and they would have been able to tell from my membership number.

    I agree with you saying that the attendees may not be advanced level dancers, because for most, becoming an advanced level dancer would be almost impossible after 12 months.

  11. #51
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    I agree with you saying that the attendees may not be advanced level dancers, because for most, becoming an advanced level dancer would be almost impossible after 12 months.


    I thought that at the time. Personally, I don't think that it's ever the amount of time. It's just how good you are. Some people are 'advanced' modern jivers after a few weeks (usually only the ladies). Some people are still not advanced after 10 years (probably went to the Central Club! ).

    Of course, now we're back to the cards system!

  12. #52
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    Your talking as if you mean an advanced class? I've never known a drop to be taught in an intermediate and certainly not a beginners. Usually it only goes as far as dips in an intermediate class.
    I don't care what level it is -- I want to know if the class has drops, or whatever. Oh and for the record, drops don't make it advanced

    SpinDr

  13. #53
    Donna
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    It's just how good you are. Some people are 'advanced' modern jivers after a few weeks (usually only the ladies).

    As my ballroom teacher says..you can only be as good as the person you are dancing with. In this case, for the ladies that is true. I've seen some brilliant female dancers over the past three years. When they dance with somebody who is on their level or EVEN HIGHER they become better and look amaaazing. Watch them dance with other experienced dancers who don't have a positive lead or a variety of good moves, then it doesn't matter how good she tries to make herself look, it just doesn't work.

  14. #54
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    ... Watch them dance with other experienced dancers who don't have a positive lead or a variety of good moves, then it doesn't matter how good she tries to make herself look, it just doesn't work.
    Not true. I have seen several ladies who are fab dancers still look like fab dancers, no matter who they are dancing with. eg Lily or Lisa.

  15. #55
    Registered User Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget

    Not true. I have seen several ladies who are fab dancers still look like fab dancers, no matter who they are dancing with. eg Lily or Lisa.
    What about their partners ?? Have they been completely subjucated and demeaned or have they been encouraged to rise to the challenge ??

  16. #56
    The Oracle
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard
    What about their partners ?? Have they been completely subjucated and demeaned or have they been encouraged to rise to the challenge ??
    Lily told me to say "no"

  17. #57
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB
    Lily told me to say "no"

  18. #58
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB

    Lily told me to say "no"
    Thanks Lily, I'm floating on air. Basking in reflected glory.

  19. #59
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    Not true. I have seen several ladies who are fab dancers still look like fab dancers, no matter who they are dancing with. eg Lily or Lisa.
    I was thinking of Lily when I read that too. She would still look great and would probably make the lead look better than he is too.

  20. #60
    Ceroc Teacher Little Em's Avatar
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    Re: Should teachers demo the routine before a class?

    wasn sure whether to post this or not as there seems to be some fairly heated opinions on this, but here goes.....

    in ceroc central it is policy not to demo the routine... but the routines are fairly 'structured' (dare i use that word!!)... the routine will usually go like this..

    move 1.) beginners variation
    move 2.) 'a classic' move (i.e wurlitzer, teapot, those type of moves.)
    move 3, & 4. ) teacher can pretty much choose here, but it needs to be something that will possibly challenge the more 'advanced' dancers and fit in/flow with the rest of the routine....

    So every week, you know your gonna be getting a little something for everyone (ish) and yes there will be harder things in there but thats a challenge, everybody needs to be challenged! if you dont feel comfortable doing a drop or something ....tell your partner, if they go in a mood about it... tough.... dont worry its their problem not yours, an it wont be long before your rotated again anyway...... if they do 'force' you into something that you have said no too...that is bad of that guy an i cant believe guys do that!!! bad men! you tell them off for it.........

    i can see the reasons people do want the class to be shown, but we dont, an thats the way it is, but with us you pretty much know what you are going to get every week.... a bit of everything!!!

    (no body is to shout at me.....

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