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Thread: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

  1. #61
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    Um, well, it doesn't. It says, "learn to dance in one evening", not "become a dancer in one evening."
    OK, but that's possibly a leetle bit of a fine distinction there.

    And if I were to be told I could "Learn to speak French in one evening", I'd expect to be a French speaker in one evening

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin
    I played a track which was specifically a tango and asked him to dance his own thing to it for a minute or so, then I did the same (with the same partner).
    Would you be surprised to know that with all the lack of "structure" within MJ/Ceroc, there was hardly any difference in the dancing/style ?
    How do you know - did you video the dances? Or did you ask your partner?
    Last edited by David Bailey; 16th-February-2006 at 10:34 AM.

  2. #62
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    How do you know - did you video the dances? Or did you ask your partner?
    [/QUOTE]



    It most probably felt the same as dancing to any style of music. Changing the rhythm and style would help to make it LOOK different. Try ballroom and latin.

  3. #63
    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    OK, but that's possibly a leetle bit of a fine distinction there.
    And in that ultra-fine distinction lies the genius of marketese...

  4. #64
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    How do you know - did you video the dances? Or did you ask your partner?
    No I didn't, but we had a few "judges" aka dance professionals.

    It was an interesting exercise though - his tango and my ceroc had both "evolved".

    Maybe i'm in the wrong thread ...

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogi_Bear
    Well, look at the US, where WCS and MJ's positions are reversed from what they are in the UK.
    But it's simple. The points have been made before. MJ has a brilliant business model. It packs the punters in with the USP of a fun night out with your mates, a bit of close contact with the opposite sex, it's dead easy to learn, you won't have to bother with footwork, and so on. After a while some of the punters realise there's more to dancing than racking up a library of 500 moves and churning them out ad nauseam. They move out of MJ and into Lindy, WCS, tango or whatever. Or they might learn from teachers such as Nigel and Nina who show just what can be done with the MJ framework. They attend a master class in the first move and its variations, subleties, etc...Their numbers are replaced by new beginners looking for a fun night out. Which is exactly what MJ in its current incarnation delivers.

    Interesting if it were true but its not

    I know loads of people who have been dancing ceroc/jive for years and years and thats all they want to do

    Some people on the forum tend to often think we all want to be the next John Travlota many many old timers are just happy with ceroc/jive they dont want/need anything else

    Give me two names of people in the whole country that have moved out of MJ and into Tango

    Before we had the latest surge in interest in ceroc (last 18 months) some venues average age was creeping up and up as people who stayed around got older and older

    To pretend there is such a migration is silly (of course a few do)

  6. #66
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Interesting if it were true but its not

    I know loads of people who have been dancing ceroc/jive for years and years and thats all they want to do

    Some people on the forum tend to often think we all want to be the next John Travlota many many old timers are just happy with ceroc/jive they dont want/need anything else

    Give me two names of people in the whole country that have moved out of MJ and into Tango

    Before we had the latest surge in interest in ceroc (last 18 months) some venues average age was creeping up and up as people who stayed around got older and older

    To pretend there is such a migration is silly (of course a few do)
    Actually. I'd agree with the points that Yogi made. He didn't say 'everyone' moves on. He said that 'some punters' move onto other types of dancing. Which is quite true. And yes, most people are quite happy doing what they do, and have a social night out, enjoying themselves. He also said that too.

    Some people move onto the other things totally, and don't come to MJ anymore. I think that most try other things. But still do come to MJ to dance, see their friends, etc.

  7. #67
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    Some people move onto the other things totally, and don't come to MJ anymore. I think that most try other things. But still do come to MJ to dance, see their friends, etc.
    This isn't just exclusive to MJ - I know people who started out with salsa and have then moved on to other dances and no longer go to salsa - classes or social. (Me, for one!)

    The big difference with MJ is that if people want to learn something new from another dance style they can do that, and still dance MJ socially because some aspects of what they are learning in the other dance styles can be applied to their MJ dancing.

    But they aren't the sort of people who drop out of MJ because of a lack of 'structure' - I really do think its about learning styles as much as anything. Some people want to be given the basics and allowed to improvise, others want more guidance on how and where they should be stepping and moving.

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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Hans

    Totally agree. I've yet to experience an MJ class/session that has even come close to teaching/training/facilitating/coaching lead/follow to any my satisfaction. [Not that I'm saying that it's easy ... I don't think it is]

    !an
    There is one here in Cardiff now. Which is taught on thursday nights. Quite a busy class with about 60-70 people turning up. Its only a begineers class at the moment and we only learn 2 moves, in an hour. The emphasis has been on tension and being Leroc they tend to guide the ladies footwork (not compulsary). Seems to be going quite well. The class has been running about 4 or 5 weeks now and i think a 3rd move will be introduced. It is nice to see some classes teaching this.

  9. #69
    Junior Member Dancing Teeth's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    From all that has been said, would it be right to describe MJ as

    A car with only a 1st gear (beginners) and 2nd gear (intermediates)…..

    it can try to reach 100 miles an hour but it’ll never do because it hasn’t built in it, the 3rd gear (fundamentals) and 4th - 5th gear (structure) to push it that much further.

    The Silly thing is the people in Car, ie you and me, don’t know about the gear problem. We were just put in the Car, we’re not mechanics. We're just loving the radio, sat nav, and all the mod cons in the car.
    And as the saying goes, we can’t think outside the box.
    (I think I’ve just described human exists)

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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing Teeth
    From all that has been said, would it be right to describe MJ as

    A car with only a 1st gear (beginners) and 2nd gear (intermediates)…..

    it can try to reach 100 miles an hour but it’ll never do because it hasn’t built in it, the 3rd gear (fundamentals) and 4th - 5th gear (structure) to push it that much further.

    The Silly thing is the people in Car, ie you and me, don’t know about the gear problem. We were just put in the Car, we’re not mechanics. We're just loving the radio, sat nav, and all the mod cons in the car.
    And as the saying goes, we can’t think outside the box.
    (I think I’ve just described human exists)
    Point id make is many do know were missing some gears but dont care we just turn the radio up

  11. #71
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    To extend the analogy further: 2 gears are fine and do the job of getting from A to B - as long as the driver considers the limitations of the car and isn't trying to bomb along the motorway or off-road...

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    Junior Member Dancing Teeth's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Point id make is many do know were missing some gears but dont care we just turn the radio up

    Nice one Stewart38, that turn the radio up part made me laugh out loud in the office.

  13. #73
    Registered User Tessalicious's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    So in fact, one could perhaps describe learning other dance styles which do have those added features as 'pimping your ride'?

  14. #74
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing Teeth
    stuff about cars
    Nice one!

    So some of us spot the limitation of the car and buy a different one (in my case a vintage American model), but keep the one with the loud radio for social use

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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    To extend the analogy further: 2 gears are fine and do the job of getting from A to B - as long as the driver considers the limitations of the car and isn't trying to bomb along the motorway or off-road...

    another nice one....


    It's easier to go off road... ie other dances ,,WCS, Salsa etc.... because the gear ratio can handle this... just not bombing down the motorway....

  16. #76
    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Hmm, by off-road and high speed, I was referring to complicated moves - dips/drops/aerials and physical fitness (or lack thereof...) - this is where analogies fall over

    I prefer the idea of other dance styles being another car, as per clevedonboy's idea. After all, I'm probably just about Lada standard now when it comes to MJ, but calling my tango a rollerskate (you know, one of those leather and metal 1970s efforts) would be a compliment

    Edited ( Robin)
    Last edited by LMC; 16th-February-2006 at 05:49 PM.

  17. #77
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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by LMC
    {snipped}I'm probably just about Robin Reliant standard
    I take great offence .

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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Point id make is many do know were missing some gears but dont care we just turn the radio up
    And that's why I'd rather dance with most beginners on their first night than lots of people who've been dancing for a few months.

    I understand that you might not feel that it's necessary to teach people to dance well, but teaching them how to dance badly is just unnecessary.

    Sean

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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing Teeth
    Nice one Stewart38, that turn the radio up part made me laugh out loud in the office.

    what do you have to do to get rep around here

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    Re: Is it Time We had formal Structure in MJ

    Quote Originally Posted by tsh
    And that's why I'd rather dance with most beginners on their first night than lots of people who've been dancing for a few months.

    I understand that you might not feel that it's necessary to teach people to dance well, but teaching them how to dance badly is just unnecessary.

    Sean

    Its that old lets knock ceroc routine, yawn

    Using the car analogy i think is good

    your not driving badly if you turn the radio up what your doing is not wanting to take the car on to a racing track and really text your self

    who teaches people to dance badly ? please clarify ??

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