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Thread: Big Headed Beginners!

  1. #61
    Donna
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Also, I have learnt many styles of dance over the last 9 years, just because you know what to do in 1 style, doesn't mean you can instantly lead (or follow) anything, every time you start a new style of dance, you have to remember that, no matter how long you've been dancing Ceroc, in that style of dance you are still a beginner, and listening to those experienced dancers who are nice enough to try to help you, will only improve your dancing.

    EXACTEMENT TT! I wouldn't want to be classed as a 'Big Headed Beginner' at all! I would be so embarrassed to say I know what I am doing even as a joke!

    I just think Ceroc helps you to picking up other styles quicker but even so, you are still a beginner if you have been doing it less that one year...no matter how good you become. It would normally take a few years to become as hot as the experienced ones out there!

  2. #62
    TiggsTours
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    EXACTEMENT TT! I wouldn't want to be classed as a 'Big Headed Beginner' at all! I would be so embarrassed to say I know what I am doing even as a joke!

    I just think Ceroc helps you to picking up other styles quicker but even so, you are still a beginner if you have been doing it less that one year...no matter how good you become. It would normally take a few years to become as hot as the experienced ones out there!
    And even the most experienced dancers don't know everything, everyone gets it wrong from time to time, and we all have those nightmare moves that we can just never get quite right!

  3. #63
    Donna
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by TiggsTours
    And even the most experienced dancers don't know everything, everyone gets it wrong from time to time, and we all have those nightmare moves that we can just never get quite right!
    That's how you learn better is from making mistakes. It's just practice practice practice and blummin practice.

  4. #64
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    That's how you learn better is from making mistakes. It's just practice practice practice and blummin practice.

    Then if your still no good , give up ??

  5. #65
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    I remember that one day I decided to help the beginners refresher class.

    I went down and a lady started to lecture me about how to do a particular move. I don't know whether she thought i had just turned up from my illegal digs in a CHinese takeaway and had decided to improve my English or what. I think I just giggled.

    A few weeks later I think I won my second comp.

    I still can't do those beginner's moves right and usually prefer beginner's classes to intermediate!!!!

  6. #66
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ste
    I remember that one day I decided to help the beginners refresher class.

    I went down and a lady started to lecture me about how to do a particular move. I don't know whether she thought i had just turned up from my illegal digs in a CHinese takeaway and had decided to improve my English or what. I think I just giggled.

    A few weeks later I think I won my second comp.

    I still can't do those beginner's moves right and usually prefer beginner's classes to intermediate!!!!


    --ooOoo--
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    I'd be interested to know how many people have come across beginners who think that after just a few weeks of trying MJ, they are much better than anyone else and are trying to tell those who ARE experienced 'HOW TO DANCE!'
    Beginners make all kinds of mistakes. One common mistake they can make is trying to tell others how to dance, or being perceived to be telling others how to dance. Another common mistake is not dancing to the beat of the music.

  8. #68
    Donna
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ste
    I remember that one day I decided to help the beginners refresher class.

    I went down and a lady started to lecture me about how to do a particular move. I don't know whether she thought i had just turned up from my illegal digs in a CHinese takeaway and had decided to improve my English or what. I think I just giggled.

    A few weeks later I think I won my second comp.

    I still can't do those beginner's moves right and usually prefer beginner's classes to intermediate!!!!
    Oh boy! Learnt something new about you today then!


    Then if your still no good , give up ??
    No S38. Just enjoy it at the level you can do it best at.

  9. #69
    Registered User jacksondonut's Avatar
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Just looking back over the last eight/nine years and thinking that I have still so much to learn! On the rare occasion I pluck up the courage to ask a beginner to dance I am filled with I think 'Fear'....

    The reason being partly because Its usually a stranger, (I tend to stick to the people I know) and partly I fear being injured and manhandled (I had my shoulder muscle damaged in the early days)...

    I do ask a beginner every now and again though because I remember how it felt, not knowing anyone and being too shy to ask... sometimes, I have been pleasantly surprised and other times a bit shook up.. nevertheless, we all started somewhere... I am just grateful to those who befriended me and took the time to show me the wonderful world of dancing..

    Answering the 'big-headed beginner' question... I often find that I come across people, who have been dancing a fair while, think they have got it sussed and continue to do it 'their way', which, I feel maybe is why they havent progressed from 'beginner' status.. It usually turns into a bit of a wrestling match..lol.. Most of the real 'beginners' I have met are too frightened of making mistakes to be 'big headed'.. I am sure my time will come though and I will eat my words sometime in the future..

    Interesting subject.

  10. #70
    Donna
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Just looking back over the last eight/nine years and thinking that I have still so much to learn! On the rare occasion I pluck up the courage to ask a beginner to dance I am filled with I think 'Fear'....
    And your not the only one! Since I had my shoulder pulled and my fingers crushed to bits, I'm filled with fear when dancing with SOME beginners. Especially the one I've been talking about too!!


    nevertheless, we all started somewhere...
    That's true! They don't learn as much unless they dance with someone who is more experienced. But imagine someone you remember dancing with who only started a few weeks ago, thinking that they are now better than you and telling YOU what to do! How insulting!

  11. #71
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    That's true! They don't learn as much unless they dance with someone who is more experienced. But imagine someone you remember dancing with who only started a few weeks ago, thinking that they are now better than you and telling YOU what to do! How insulting!
    Uh huh. It's insulting. But it's scary when they're right

  12. #72
    Donna
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp
    Uh huh. It's insulting. But it's scary when they're right
    hmmm. Tell me about this experience you've had with a big headed then.

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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    But imagine someone you remember dancing with who only started a few weeks ago, thinking that they are now better than you and telling YOU what to do! How insulting!
    Insulting? Not at all. I would be eager to hear their opinions:
    It's a partner dance - I am dancing with them as my partner - if I am doing something that makes it harder for them to follow or my lead isn't clear enough in what I want them to do, then I would like to know so that I can (try to) fix it.

    Intermediate & improver dancers will automatically correct and interperate what you lead to match what they expect to be led into. Beginners won't (at least to the same degree). I get better feedback and input from them than almost anyone else.

    {PS anyone else find it difficult to pick flaws in your partner's dancing? Any time I try, I end up discovering more stuff wrong with mine }

  14. #74
    Donna
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    It's a partner dance - I am dancing with them as my partner - if I am doing something that makes it harder for them to follow or my lead isn't clear enough in what I want them to do, then I would like to know so that I can (try to) fix it
    .

    I see what you mean. It may not even be your lead though especially if others can follow and this one person is unable to. It may be because they are finding it difficult and cannot follow and what I'm getting at is that some can't admit to that,and so try telling an experienced dancer how it should have been done.

  15. #75
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    {PS anyone else find it difficult to pick flaws in your partner's dancing? Any time I try, I end up discovering more stuff wrong with mine }
    I think this is a good point. As you get better it's easier to see how mistakes and problems are your fault.

    And when you're dancing with beginners, flaws in your leading are much more likely to cause problems, so a beginner follower may actually be in a better position to criticise than those who have learnt how to cope with a poor lead.

    I suspect the reverse is true – a beginner lead may be able to stumble over problems in your following that a experienced dancer would be able to cope with better.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  16. #76
    Registered User Tazmanian Devil's Avatar
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella
    Yep come across this bloke (or his many clones ) before. I think it's best to just grin at him and let him say his piece, it can be quite entertaining.

    There is always one or two beginners that think they know it all after just a few weeks, at times I find it quite funny as I have been dancing for 4 years and still don't think I know anywhere near it all. But other times when the particular person wether it be male/female really hasn't got a clue let alone the concept it can be quite annoying.
    We had one guy like this at welling and he actually went out of his way to tell other beginners where they were going wrong. The problem being they weren't going wrong at all he was

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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    I see what you mean. It may not even be your lead though especially if others can follow and this one person is unable to.
    It may. But if I can improve for this person, then isn't that improvement going to make dancing with other followers better? I can try to understand what they get from my lead and what they expect to be getting from my lead. From this I can try to work out what to do in order to get them to do what I want.

    It may be because they are finding it difficult and cannot follow and what I'm getting at is that some can't admit to that,and so try telling an experienced dancer how it should have been done.
    If they can't follow it, there are generally two options: I have not led it properly or I have miss-judged them and should not have lead the move in the first place.

    The only thing they are doing by telling me "how it should be done" is telling me how they expect to be led through the move. I can either show them that there may be a better way, or addapt my lead so that it matches. {...and then bleed it into the "better way" }


    Somehow I think that what most people are refering to here are big headed beginner LEADS... and this is a diffeent matter.

  18. #78
    Donna
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    It may. But if I can improve for this person, then isn't that improvement going to make dancing with other followers better?
    It all depends. See, if you lead it the way they may find comfortable with, then that might be totally wrong and therefore will not work with others. There should only be one way to lead so that everybody can follow. It this one person struggles to follow a move that everybody else can and tries telling you how it should be done..then that's just their opinion. It will be almost like they are teaching themselves to be lead into something that would only feel right when dancing with you. When she starts dancing with people, she will still struggle. Does that mean that everybody needs to improve on their lead?

  19. #79
    Registered User babycass77's Avatar
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Hi folks

    I am definitely what you'd call a "beginner" as far as ceroc goes, though I am experienced at dancing other styles so I found this quite an interesting thread. It got me thinking about ceroc and what it means to be a beginner etc etc etc.

    Yes I am an absolute beginner (I have been to 6 classes now plus the beach ballroom night.) And whilst I would never ever dream of telling anyone how they should dance or do a particular move; I still think that as a complete beginner you can tell who the better dancers are. There are some men whom I have danced with who give very clear signals and with whom it is clear what is expected of me as the follower. With others though it can be very confusing. The signals are not clear or strong enough and sometimes they do not "push" or "pull" hard in enough in the right directions. (Are "push/pull" the right words? There I go showing the extent of my beginnerdom! )

    So just because I am a beginner, does it mean that I don't have the right to judge - or rather to feel - who is a better lead? Also does it mean that I shouldn't say to someone "I like dancing with you because you are a strong lead and I find you easy to follow..." (Although I would never say the opposite to someone who wasn't easy for me to follow

    The other thing is that, whilst I do admit to being a complete beginner and I often forget or fluff some of the moves i've just been taught, is it wrong if I were to help another beginner (say someone right next to me) who was struggling with a particular move? (The teacher in me can't resist doing this I'm afraid to admit!) If I can see that a fellow beginner is struggling with a move, and I see what he/she is doing wrong; if the teacher is busy or has not noticed, should I just ignore and not offer advice or should I offer advice? I'm not a big headed beginner or anything (far from it, I am my own worst critic when it comes to dancing) but I know that if I were struggling to complete/understand a move and someone near me could offer me advice then I'd want to hear it as I would be too shy to ask the teacher myself.

    I have actually offered advice before to a fellow beginner who was struggling with a particular move and who had gotten tangled up.

    One final thought; whilst I half agree with the person who said that just because someone has experienced other forms of dance does not make them experienced in ceroc (I can't remember who said it and I'm not sure of how to do the quote thingy... sorry) I also do feel that being very experienced in other forms of dance does give you some (maybe even only a teeny tiny bit) sort of knowledge and expertise in dancing in general. As such could such a person (even if still a beginner) not offer general dance advice?

    Perhaps you won't agree, and that's cool. I feel that I'm getting to grips with Ceroc fairly well so far (bearing in mind I've only really done beginner moves so far and I'll probably fall flat on my face when it comes to more intermediate stuff ) thanks to my own knowledge and experience of other dance styles, some of which I have done to a fairly advanced level and have even taught.

    Yikes. I hope that this doesn't upset or offend anyone. I just found the thread really interesting and it got me thinking so I thought I'd put those thoughts down here.

  20. #80
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Big Headed Beginners!

    Quote Originally Posted by babycass77
    Yikes. I hope that this doesn't upset or offend anyone. I just found the thread really interesting and it got me thinking so I thought I'd put those thoughts down here. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

    Welcome and well put

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