Big Headed Beginners!

[Donna]

I've only ever gotten unsolicited advice from beginners.

Good dancer never seem to say anything. They usually just dance for a couple seconds the way I was dancing, then dance the way they think I should dance.

[Ste]

There is this one guy (very strange though) who, after dancing for just 5 weeks, thinks he is ABSOLUTELY the best MJ in the UK! He has never danced before in his life. I watch him dancing with some of the experienced ones, and he stops in the middle of a track trying to tell them that they did wrong and how it should be done. I find this extremely annoying and even worse, nobody seems to be complaining to the guy who runs the venue about him!

Donna, I've told you not to comment on my dancing on this forum!!!

[Ste]

[QUOTE=Donna]
I'm wondering if it might be a slight mental problem too. He gives women very strange looks....like he is undressing you with his eyes. Very very creepy and I have a lot of my mates coming up to me saying exactly the same thing. He also passed a comment on to one woman there (just out of the blue) he said, 'Do you know that most men prefer oral to real sex!! )

QUOTE]

Oopps! Sorry, just realised you weren't talking about me at all! It was "that man" of the average height, short hair, forties, non descript.....that one!

[Donna]

Oopps! Sorry, just realised you weren't talking about me at all! It was "that man" of the average height, short hair, forties, non descript.....that one!

[/QUOTE]

Well hello there monkey man!


Description matches you perfectly. No somethings missing.
He was **** eyed. Not you then!

[Andybroom]

He sounds quite an oddball, but getting back to his 'teaching' of moves...

In 3 years of taxi-ing I've noticed this quite often - the lead expecting the follow to dance exactly as the move was taught in the class and becoming exasperated when it's not like that.

Maybe you could ask whoever taxis that night to mention that 'dancing' is different to 'class' and to expect deviation by followers (some of us are more deviant than others too )?

Whilst this guy sounds (as you say) a bit of an oddball in other respects, I'm a bit interested in why (assuming that the lead has led what was taught in class) you would expect the follow to do something other than follow him?

Obviously if a beginner lead does (or leads) the move incorrectly the follower might have a problem in deciding what to do and a fairly advanced lead might actually decide to do a move differently to the way it's just been taught, but neither of those are quite the same thing.

Personally I can quite understand someone getting exasperated if the follow does something different to what he's lead.

(non dancing deviations excepted, of course! )

Andy

[Andybroom]

Males are less likely to be in this position as females are (since we are the ones supposedly doing the leading). However, i do remember once being given a bit of a telling off once by a TAXI DANCER (i am one too but i would never act like this). I went to a venue i had never been to before (i didn't know anyone there). During the lesson the taxi dancer kept "correcting" my hand hold, body position, etc, and made me fell like a total incompetent. At the end she commented that i "wasn't bad but needed working on". Needless to say, i just smiled and didn't say anything. We happened to get partnered a couple more times and the same thing happened.

I must admit I have never been to a class with taxi dancers (I live in a non-ceroc area) but I have to say I'm a bit leery of the idea - especially outside of a beginners class. You story is why I'm leery about the theory - correcting someone's dancing is only OK if the taxi (or whoever) is actually right!

Andy

[Donna]

You story is why I'm leery about the theory - correcting someone's dancing is only OK if the taxi (or whoever) is actually right!

And they're not always. I think some of the taxi dancers are mainly on intermediate level and are still sometimes unsure of some things but show them to a beginner the way they think it's done.

[Bop]

And they're not always. I think some of the taxi dancers are mainly on intermediate level and are still sometimes unsure of some things but show them to a beginner the way they think it's done.

When I taxied I always thought the most important bit was to encourage the beginners to keep coming - teach a little along the way, but mostly encourage them to get on the floor and try dancing.

I do remember a few who thought they were fantastic by week two, but weren't quite there (yet)?

I must say I was only an intermediate when I first taxied and I hope I wasn't so arrogant as to correct more experienced dancers?

Bop

[TiggsTours]

"I was just following your lead"

More to the point:

"I was just following your lead, and the reason I did this is because, from a follower's perspective, this is what your lead said to me, if you want me to turn the right way on this move you need to indicate it clearly to me by leading it this way, then I will be able to follow it correctly, the way you led it was quite difficult for me to follow what you wanted me to do. You may find other people have done what you expect, purely because they are leading themselves, not following your lead.

How about I show you the difference in what you did, and the way it needs to be led? I can lead you through that move, if you're prepared to try following it, you should be able to feel the difference quite easily, would you like me to help you so you can get it right in future? You can't expect to be able to lead everything perfectly when you haven't been dancing that long, it will come with time, and experience, and by listening to the advice of more experienced dancers"

That usually shuts them up, and ensures they are prepared to listen to your advice.

[Donna]

More to the point:

"I was just following your lead, and the reason I did this is because, from a follower's perspective, this is what your lead said to me, if you want me to turn the right way on this move you need to indicate it clearly to me by leading it this way, then I will be able to follow it correctly, the way you led it was quite difficult for me to follow what you wanted me to do. You may find other people have done what you expect, purely because they are leading themselves, not following your lead.

How about I show you the difference in what you did, and the way it needs to be led? I can lead you through that move, if you're prepared to try following it, you should be able to feel the difference quite easily, would you like me to help you so you can get it right in future? You can't expect to be able to lead everything perfectly when you haven't been dancing that long, it will come with time, and experience, and by listening to the advice of more experienced dancers"

That usually shuts them up, and ensures they are prepared to listen to your advice.

Nice one TT!!

[LMC]

More to the point:

~ snip - it's only just up there ~

- absolutely. But only if I'm taxi-ing, or if I'm asked. Otherwise, to be honest, I can't really be bothered to explain all that (plus my throat won't hold up to talking too much over loud music - if a beginner wants to get into lengthy discussion, I tend to ask them to come out to the lobby with me so we don't have to yell at each other!)

And unless they are hurting me (thumbs or yanking) I tend not to volunteer "teaching style" comments to non-beginners during freestyle.

[Donna]

my throat won't hold up to talking too much over loud music - if a beginner wants to get into lengthy discussion, I tend to ask them to come out to the lobby with me so we don't have to yell at each other!)

Neither does mine! There is nothing worse than someone wanting to go into a lengthy discussion on the dance floor. It makes me feel awkward as I know people around you hate it (I'm one of them). I try and slowly walk to the edge of the dance floor.. and they eventually start following me.

And unless they are hurting me (thumbs or yanking) I tend not to volunteer "teaching style" comments to non-beginners during freestyle.

[/QUOTE]


Especially after that? No way. Not unless you want your joints pulling out of place.

[timbp]

I was just following your lead, and the reason I did this is because, from a follower's perspective, this is what your lead said to me, if you want me to turn the right way on this move you need to indicate it clearly to me by leading it this way, then I will be able to follow it correctly, the way you led it was quite difficult for me to follow what you wanted me to do.

Is your name Clare, and do you teach tango in Sydney?

That is almost word for word what I was told at one point in my tango class last night.

However, I've had 2 years of ceroc, and some salsa in during that time. This was my third tango class. If it had been my third dance class, I doubt I would have kept going (I've paid for an 8 week tango course; I would probably have finished the course and never come back).

I don't know how bad I was at my third ceroc class (which was my third dance class). But I do know that at about 10 months I went back to a venue I hadn't been to for a while (although I'd gone there a lot when I started). After one dance, the girl said, "I enjoyed that. I remember how bad you were when you started." So I suspect I was really bad at my third ceroc class.

That's one thing I really like about ceroc. I felt welcome. Women were williing to dance with me from the first lesson. Nobody told me how bad I was until I was well past that stage.

I started dancing because of a girlfriend; we often went to parties where people had done ceroc, and my girlfriend would dance with them. She hadn't done ceroc, but had done lots of jazz ballet and "could follow anything". I realised that if I ever wanted to dance with her, I had to learn how. So I tried ceroc. My intention was to learn just enough to get out on the dance floor with her (I thought of about 6-8 classes). Two years later, I have no idea what she's doing. I'm addicted to ceroc, and now enjoying Argentine tango.
I picked ceroc as that's what the guys were leading at the parties we went to (and that's what the music was). If salsa had been the scene, I would probably have done an 8 week course and stopped classes, believing I knew enough to dance with her at parties. If it had been tango, I would have immediately known no woman is worth this effort and dropped out of the classes, and I would never have learnt that the dance is worth the effort (and [I hope] the women like the dancers).

[LMC]

And unless they are hurting me (thumbs or yanking) I tend not to volunteer "teaching style" comments to non-beginners during freestyle.

Especially after that? No way. Not unless you want your joints pulling out of place.

Eh?

What I meant was, if someone is hurting me, then I *will* say so - and if they are not a beginner, I'm pathetic too, I really wail "ow" - best feedback possible IMO Unfortunately, I recently had a genuine "OW" moment with a first-timer leading a shoulder drop who didn't wait for me to finish turning before he started his turn - and that really did hurt. I really squeaked before I recovered and explained (nicely, hope I didn't put him off altogether )

[stewart38]

Is your name Clare, and do you teach tango in Sydney?

If it is, hats of to the girl she must have one hell of an exhausting schedule

[Donna]

Nobody told me how bad I was until I was well past that stage.

So if nobody was to comment now, you'd be worried yep?

So I tried ceroc. My intention was to learn just enough to get out on the dance floor with her (I thought of about 6-8 classes). Two years later, I have no idea what she's doing. I'm addicted to ceroc, and now enjoying Argentine tango.

This proves what I was saying earlier on this thread. People who really want to get into dancing, but have never danced before, turn to something that is easy and fun to learn, just as a taster. Ceroc I think is most probably the only form of partner dancing that provides this and so it is the best way to learn a few moves and then your follow and lead skills. Once experienced enough, people then feel ready to move onto something more challenging. If they know that ceroc is not for them, then they will quit dancing altogether.

[timbp]

So if nobody was to comment now, you'd be worried yep?

Probably. The comments I do get now (for ceroc) are all positive, so if I stopped getting comments I guess it would mean I'd really gone bad.

And if I got a negative comment from someone I respected as a dancer (not from a big headed beginner), I would be shattered. All self-respect lost. Probably suicidal. I might even stop going to ceroc classes.

[TiggsTours]

Is your name Clare, and do you teach tango in Sydney?

No, and erm, no.

My name's Amanda, and I live in London.

[Donna]

Probably. The comments I do get now (for ceroc) are all positive, so if I stopped getting comments I guess it would mean I'd really gone bad.

And if I got a negative comment from someone I respected as a dancer (not from a big headed beginner), I would be shattered. All self-respect lost. Probably suicidal. I might even stop going to ceroc classes.

Well living in Australia and the standard of dancing being quite high, I'm sure you are good and I would most probably say the same if I seen you dance!

I think I'd feel the same way if I had a negative comment from someone who I respected as a dancer too. Mind you, I wouldn't be totally shattered because I would take their advice and use that to help me improve more. Don't give up if anybody was to do this as they would only be trying to help, not criticise.

[TiggsTours]

Well living in Australia and the standard of dancing being quite high, I'm sure you are good and I would most probably say the same if I seen you dance!

I think I'd feel the same way if I had a negative comment from someone who I respected as a dancer too. Mind you, I wouldn't be totally shattered because I would take their advice and use that to help me improve more. Don't give up if anybody was to do this as they would only be trying to help, not criticise.

Trust me, there was nothing negative about my comment, the way I see it, as a lead, do you want your partner to do what you want her to do because she's danced with you before, and you showed her what to do then, or because you led it so well and so smoothly that she followed without any problem at all?

Also, I have learnt many styles of dance over the last 9 years, just because you know what to do in 1 style, doesn't mean you can instantly lead (or follow) anything, every time you start a new style of dance, you have to remember that, no matter how long you've been dancing Ceroc, in that style of dance you are still a beginner, and listening to those experienced dancers who are nice enough to try to help you, will only improve your dancing. I always take it as a compliment, if somebody is willing to help me with learning something new, they can obviously see I have the potential to be good, or else they'd just write me off as a lost cause, and grin and bear it.