Are Mikey's "Strictly Sinful" workshops ...

[ducasi]

OK, let's get a clear answer to this question. What do we think of workshops where moves that may resemble sexual behaviour are taught?

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...

[David Franklin]

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...

Nope (sorry ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.

[El Salsero Gringo]

OK, let's get a clear answer to this question. What do we think of workshops where moves that may resemble sexual behaviour are taught?

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...

Are you having a laugh? Aren't there enough wind-up polls around at the moment?

[TheTramp]

Nope (sorry ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.

I think that maybe 'distasteful', rather than perverted!

[Andy McGregor]

Hope I've got a set of options in this poll which will keep everyone happy...

I'm afraid the options don't address my concern about these workshops. IMHO the workshops themselves are not perverted - but some of the moves are based on sexual practices that I consider perverted. The reason I don't think these moves should be taught is because they give pervs a licence to do them in freestyle - and that really happens as bigdjiver has said.

And the second reason I think the moves based on sex acts have no place in the teaching of dance is that, IMHO, they're not really dancing.

[Andy McGregor]

Nope (sorry ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.

[Chef]

I have been to three of Mikeys "strictly sinful" classes at weekenders so I feel that I have been fair to him in terms of my exposure to his lessons. I have also met Mikey at dance events and found him a reasonable chap and quite personalble. I have not yet seen him do any of his "strictly sinful" stuff on a social dancefloor

I know many people that really like his lessons. I just don't get it myself. I find his stuff in these lessons trivial in that they did not extend the dance skills that I had at the time and provided me with nothing that I could realistically use on a social dance floor with a partner.

I find them to be a bit like a saucy seaside postcard. Good for a quick giggle as they nudge, nudge, wink, wink at the edges of decent social behaviour but then to toss aside quickly once the initial giggle subsides.

Since his classes are usually in the morning session of a weekender I know that I can set the alarm clock that bit later and not be missing anything that I would value.

[LMC]

What DavidF said

[Magic Hans]

At last, a balance poll with reasonable choices, and no hidden agenda!!

Thank you!!

[Each to their own, and not for me!! [ .... unless I find a very very very good friend!!!]

[Andybroom]

. The reason I don't think these moves should be taught is because they give pervs a licence to do them in freestyle - and that really happens as bigdjiver has said.

I don't know about your "neck of the woods" but I have to say I've never seen (or been told about) that happening in my area. Yes, once in a while a guy turns up who does things he shouldn't do. Usually he doesn't last long. The women soon see he doesn't get any dances.

Ordinary people (as opposed to perverts) do, however, sometimes dance "dirty" moves during freestyle.

In fact moves which you would probably class as dirty exist in most forms of partner dance even in ballroom. Where they are actually more commonly danced than in Modern Jive (I seem to recall several of the routines in the last Strictly Come Dancing included moves of that sort broadcast live on prime time national TV - presumably even the BBC dosn't agree with you).

And the second reason I think the moves based on sex acts have no place in the teaching of dance is that, IMHO, they're not really dancing.

Which is just your opinion. Which you are entitled to, but you are not entitled to force it on anyone else.

As I said in the other thread on this, you don't have to learn that kind of move or dance it if you don't want to. But a lot of people do want to learn them (500 attending a dance class is hardly a small number!) and you have no right to dictate to them.

Andy

[ducasi]

Nope (sorry ). My feelings are roughly "I would prefer such moves weren't taught in Modern Jive but I wouldn't go so far as to ban them". While I don't see them as perverted, I don't like seeing them on the dance floor, so I really don't want to say they're OK, either.

But the poll is referring only to the workshops – not the moves.

I don't think that anyone who has any sense would see these moves as acceptable on a social dance-floor with anyone other than a very, very close friend. (And even then, I'd probably agree with Trampy, that they'd be distasteful.)

[Andy McGregor]

Ordinary people (as opposed to perverts) do, however, sometimes dance "dirty" moves during freestyle.

There's a world of difference between dirty looking and dirty. A face-to-face body ripple that doesn't touch is dirty looking but harmless, so it the, non-touching, 'slut' move that I stole from Lydia , spinning someone using their butt crack as the hand-hold is just plain dirty in my book. Is there anyone on the forum that thinks otherwise?

[El Salsero Gringo]

There's a world of difference between dirty looking and dirty. A face-to-face body ripple that doesn't touch is dirty looking but harmless, so it the, non-touching, 'slut' move that I stole from Lydia , spinning someone using their butt crack as the hand-hold is just plain dirty in my book. Is there anyone on the forum that thinks otherwise?

Dirty can be great, as long as it's not tasteless. I'd have to have seen the move to have an opinion as to whether it was tasteless.

Oh, and, er, thanks, Chris!

[David Franklin]

But the poll is referring only to the workshops – not the moves.

Sorry, but I think you're arguing for the sake of it here - "I would prefer such moves weren't taught" is clearly relevant to the workshops as well as the moves.

[META]

Bluntly, I think this poll is worded badly. I ended up voting "Perverted and should be banned" as the "best" option to register my views. Only I don't actually think the workshops should be banned. And in fact no-one on this thread has supported banning. Yet that is the outcome the poll shows.

If this seems illogical, something I notice repeatedly is that faced with the two poll options 'There's nothing wrong with "X"' and 'Those who do "X" are evil and should be shunned' people who moderately disapprove of "X" feel they are being manipulated towards the first option, and vote for the second, even if they would never actually go that far in real life. The fact that "it's only a poll, so nothing will actually happen if I choose an extreme option" probably has an influence as well.

[/META]

[ducasi]

Sorry, but I think you're arguing for the sake of it here - "I would prefer such moves weren't taught" is clearly relevant to the workshops as well as the moves.

Sorry David, you've got a point there, though others have talked more about the moves, rather than the workshops.

[META]

Bluntly, I think this poll is worded badly. ...

Well the options were based on Andy's call for a ban, and DC and others' "live and let live" pleas. I thought of putting in a greater spectrum of views, but then it can be harder to decide which to vote for.

I wanted a clear contrast between the two main options so there's no doubt in the result, but if anyone else is unsure where to put their vote, I'd recommend the "whatever" option.

[WittyBird]

Is it just me or is anyone else bored with is subject?

[TheTramp]

Is it just me or is anyone else bored with is subject?

Nope.

I was bored with it some time ago. Maybe weeks. Now it's more a 'losing the will to live' level. It's a bit like a road accident though. You don't really want to look, but you just can't avoid it....

My take is that I don't like them. But it's not my place to tell other consenting adults what they should and shouldn't like or do. Unless specifically asked for an opinion by someone.

[Andybroom]

There's a world of difference between dirty looking and dirty. A face-to-face body ripple that doesn't touch is dirty looking but harmless, so it the, non-touching, 'slut' move that I stole from Lydia

Well, OK, but you haven't (I don't believe) made that point previously - you have simply condemmned all "dirty" moves.

, spinning someone using their butt crack as the hand-hold is just plain dirty in my book. Is there anyone on the forum that thinks otherwise?

I would have said it was more painful than anything else.

I have to say that I have little problem with anything that consenting adults wish to do between themselves as a general principle.

However, from a purely dance point of view, trying to lead a spin from that position would be nearly impossible so (if that was what this guy actually taught) I would question his ability as any kind of teacher. I say that because the bum crack is down the line of the centre of mass of the body and you need to lead spins from off the centre line so that the follow can actually feel that you want her to turn.

I was actually assuming that whoever posted that had simply got it wrong - a much more likely place to lead such a spin from would be the hip (something I do actually do).

Personally I would be unlikely in the extreme to stick my hand into anyone's bum crack as part of a dance move, but I wouldn't stop others if they want to (and if both of them are happy with it).

Andy

[LMC]

Now it's more a 'losing the will to live' level. It's a bit like a road accident though. You don't really want to look, but you just can't avoid it....

[Lee]

Is it just me or is anyone else bored with is subject?