What should be taught in Beginners classes

[cerocmetro]

Ceroc Uk have 22 beginners moves. Are they the right moves, should there be more/less.

what else should be taught or is there too much already?

Remember your first time or first few weeks. Was it too complicated or too easy, what do you wish you had be taught that you weren't?

Adam

[TheTramp]

At the time, I'd say it was rather difficult - being different to anything I'd done before (though, I did have some rather excellent personal help from a lovely taxi-dancer).

These days, I rather wish that there was more technique and floorcraft taught. However, back when I started, I think I was happy with what I was being taught. It's a question of perception.

Personally, I think I'd like to see a 3 level teaching structure - with the beginners as they currently are, a middle class, which concentrated on introducing better technique, floorcraft etc., and then the intermediate class. And while the taxi-dancers do a great job with the beginners, I'd prefer to see an actual teacher taking the middle class...

However, how that would work under the current structure, I'm not sure. Maybe the smaller middle class being run in a separate area as a small group, while the beginner class was running, and only available to the people at that level. But that would require a separate room (or area big enough), plus extra teachers to teach it. Which might make it not feasible at many venues...

[LMC]

I think Trampy's idea is a good one. IMO, that middle class should include (not necessarily the technical terms, but the principles):

1) Frame/tension - too many beginner women have spaghetti arms (I was one of those ) - or are so stiff that if I'm leading, I'm terrified of damaging them when I'm trying to turn them.

2) Lead and follow - just walking backwards and forwards, taking it in turns with eyes closed is an easy exercise that Pat (Stevenage venue mgr) uses in review classes. More emphasis on guys telling women to let them lead!

3) More emphasis on the handhold - some beginner guys use thumbs because they can't get a connection - I can be patient with beginners, but by the time they've been in intermediate for 4-6 weeks and fallen in love with pretzels, this habit is so ingrained that I don't want to dance with them any more.

4) Counting without hand bouncing.

I reckon it would only take 10 -15 minutes max to cover the principles of all of these and encouragement to practise with the taxi dancers or other willing experienced dancers at the side of the floor or somewhere where you can still hear the music but are not in the way.

Finally, please can we get rid of the "6 weeks to intermediate". Confidence leading and following all the beginners moves on time would be a better measure - however long that takes.

[TheTramp]

Finally, please can we get rid of the "6 weeks to intermediate". Confidence leading and following all the beginners moves on time would be a better measure - however long that takes.

In Scotland, the usual thing now is 10-12 weeks (depending on which teacher is saying it).

When I teach, I usually say that the criteria is feeling comfortable with leading (or following) all the beginner moves, and actually doing some dancing in freestyle....

[tsh]

The selection of moves is probably not important. These should be a place holder for what is actually being taught. Anything, so long as it is common should work.

It's quite difficult to think what should be covered at 'beginner' and what should be covered at 'improver' though. I am finding that I have to ask one beginner to not think about the moves pretty much every class though (i.e. just follow the lead - if you have one, and the move will work).

Given the current Ceroc format, where there are only 2 levels of class, I would suggest that in addition to the set of beginner moves, a set of style fundamentals could be drawn up as well, to be rotated alongside the moves - maybe just one per class. Emphasise that this is for the benefit of those who have already done 2/3 classes, keep it fairly simple, and use it to keep the patter more interesting.
I know that I find it difficult to pay any attention to a teacher who is repeating something I have heard repeated verbatim hundreds of times, so a bit of variation, and more interactive exersises (not just moves) might make it easier to get people to listen...

Sean

[Seahorse]

Something related to footwork (as you'd do in a salsa class - that's why they call it 'basic') and learning to listen to the music (keeping time).

[Donna]

[QUOTE]

Ceroc Uk have 22 beginners moves. Are they the right moves, should there be more/less.

Depends on the individual. The majority of people who might not have danced before and pick things up quickly, (like myself ) might find it gets a little boring having just 22 moves and then having to go over them again a few weeks down the line.

I think those that find it hard to pick moves up would prefer there were less beginner moves. Anyway, I don't think a beginner is expected to know all 22. It's a case of ' if you feel confident enough doing them and fancy doing something a bit more challenging then try intermediate. That's what I did.

[janey]

When you first start as a beginner its great just to get a few moves under your belt and feel that you are making some progress. This also lets you have a go at a bit of freestyle straight away.

I do agree with Trampy however & would like to learn some more technique & style in the beginners class. This might be because I'm quite tall & I'm always worrying about what to do with my spare arm & how not to wipe other dancers off the floor by flailing around too much!!

[Whitebeard]

Ceroc Uk have 22 beginners moves.

It might help if we knew what those were, or, indeed, are.

As a raw beginner I would have much appreciated having access to a listing of the official beginner moves with brief instructions. Something like that seen at:

http://www.cerockidderminster.co.uk/...ners_moves.tpl

Although that is probably now out of date.


(I much regret that collective nouns now seem to be quite out of fashion and a concept beyond the comprehension of many in a younger demographic.)

[robd]

Slightly diverting the direction of this thread but still on topic.....

Do you feel that in a beginners class an experienced lead should

a - Lead the moves exactly as they are shown from the stage?
b - Lead the moves as they would lead them in freestyle?

To give a tangible example, during a first move I always put my right hand against the follower's left shoulder blade rather than to their hip which is how it tends to be taught in class.

Is it more useful to beginners to experience the move that they will be lead into in freestyle or is it the case that during a class they will have so much to concentrate on anyway that the lead should simply put into practice that which is being described from the stage?

Robert

[Lee]

What should be taught in Beginners classes?

It's not about the teaching nor the learning curve IMO, it's about making the lessons fun and not intimidating to the new people so they come back.

Lee

[Gadget]

Do you feel that in a beginners class an experienced lead should

a - Lead the moves exactly as they are shown from the stage?
b - Lead the moves as they would lead them in freestyle?

I always lead the moves as demonstrated. {<-lie; I always try to lead as the moves are called and as they were initially shown.}

A. (*)

Other dancers in the line may be looking at you rather than the stage because you're closer and they can't see the stage.

You are practicing how your partners would feel it in freestyle: if you are the only one doing that variation, then it's not how they would "normally" be led, is it?

There are a couple of minor modification I sometimes make, like leading the follower forward and moving myself to the side rather than "leading to the side" as is said from stage. But the only difference the follower should notice is a clearer lead from me.

(*Unless you know the dancer and they are experianced as well, but even then,...^)

[ducasi]

Do you feel that in a beginners class an experienced lead should ... lead the moves exactly as they are shown from the stage?

I always lead the moves as demonstrated.

I agree for all the reasons Gadget gives, but like him, I'll occasionally spice it up a little with a dancer you know doesn't need to be shown the exact mechanics of a first move anymore...

[ducasi]

Does anyone think it would be a good idea to teach a simple lean or dip as a beginner's move?

As it currently stands beginner ladies are often going to get dipped or leaned well before they have a chance to learn good technique (such as not throwing themselves into them before they are led, and how to take their own weight.)

On the other side, some guys might have a go at them before they have been taught how to do them properly...

Maybe it'd be better if everyone got taught the correct behaviour from early on...

[TheTramp]

Does anyone think it would be a good idea to teach a simple lean or dip as a beginner's move?

As it currently stands beginner ladies are often going to get dipped or leaned well before they have a chance to learn good technique (such as not throwing themselves into them before they are led, and how to take their own weight.)

On the other side, some guys might have a go at them before they have been taught how to do them properly...

Maybe it'd be better if everyone got taught the correct behaviour from early on...

No. But I do think that correct technique should be taught from time to time in intermediate classes.

Where it should be reinforced that you don't perform dips (or aerials - thinking of one Glasgow male dancer in particular!!) on beginner ladies who don't know what they are doing! Or on anyone who you haven't specifically asked if they mind you putting them into dips....

[Trousers]

These days, I rather wish that there was more technique and floorcraft taught.

Scrub the technique we generally find our own but Floorcraft please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please
Teach Floorcraft.

I know we've done this to death but no-one listens. The only Ceroc teacher I ever heard mention Floorcraft was Steve Nash at Brockham - at the end of his set he said 'it's busy tonight so please dance carefully!' Not a lot but more than you normally get.

Rant Rant Rant

More Floorcraft Please - Health and Safety rules say we are all responsible for everyones safety how come Ceroc-Sorry it's not just Ceroc all MJ venues seem to miss this.

Sorry Metro you asked for it!
But I won't hold my breath. . . . . . .

[robd]

{Lots about floorcraft}

Agree but I often find it's not the beginners who cause me the most grief in relation to floorcraft.

At Nottingham recently there was one fella who was clearly an experienced and skilled dancer but who danced as though the floor was his and his alone. He wore a dodgy beret too but I'll not hold that against him.

Similar experience at Cambridge a few months back - a couple I didn't recognise sat out the beginners class and then hit the floor for the freestyle immediately afterwards doing lots of big moves, dips, drops, swingouts. Anyone who has danced at Cambridge knows the floorspace is cramped at the best of times but it's particularly difficult just after beginner's class and their dancing, though impressive as a spectacle just showed a complete disregard for other dancers.

Robert

[TheTramp]

Yeah. But if you teach them when they start. Hopefully when they're intermediates, they'll remember.

Though, it's probably too late for some people....

[Cruella]

He wore a dodgy beret too but I'll not hold that against him.

That's completely given away his identity to us that are local.

[Gadget]

please ^10 Teach Floorcraft.

How?

What I mean is; what could you say/demonstrate from the stage to convey "floorcraft"? I think that it can be done better in small groups (like revision classes where the taxis pass on information)

Does anyone think it would be a good idea to teach a simple lean or dip as a beginner's move?

I'm with tramp: no. Although regular reminders in intermediate are a +

Two primary reasons - Firstly it would scare new folks. Secondly to do it right with complete beginners would take up the whole class' time slot and you would only have one move.

<hr>

I saw something on Tuesday in the beginners class that I think is excelent practice and am 310% behind: a move was taught with two variations.
It dosn't seem much, but it introduces the principles of flexability, addapting moves and a core of "no such thing as a 'wrong' move".

In this case it was simply stepping back with the right or left foot in a first move - but since it was taught from stage both ways, there can be less "no that's not how you do it..." criticism that I've seen beginners tell each other. It opens their minds to actually following rather than anticipating. (although the lead dosn't really change)


I think that the "in and out" should be reserved for a training excercise or changed to a 'traveling' in and out where there are no semi-circles - it's just tension pulling your partner, then a step back while twisting and compression sending them back so you have both swapped places.

I think that a "first move-follow" (or mambo-steps) should be added to give a better grounding in the "ballroom" hold.

I think that footwork should remain exactly how it is: guidelines about turning and spinning with footnotes {}. Dancers told where they should move to, not how they should move.

I think that the comb should be another move with alternatives taught (like this damn hand on elbow and 'birdie song' walks could be both partners placing left hands on the other's hip.)

Away from beginners, I am all for a more 'technical' sub-class... perhaps the first 5/10 mins of the intermediate teaching some more technical or style based stuff, then the actual class giving moves that the stuff can be slotted into. Maybe this could be going on during the last few tracks of the first freestyle?