Last night I went along to the Ceroc Anglia freestyle night.
I cant say I had a good night-the music was not too inspiring and I just didnt feel "on form".There were some good dancers there but I did get the feeling from one or two individuals of "hotshotitis".Having said that I had spent the afternoon watching Norwich City lose again so I wasn't exactly in the best frame of mind so my judgment may have been a little blurred.
Thats bye the bye;my reason for posting is that I am led to believe that the teachers;not taxis dancers; from Norwich Ceroc are not allowed to attend any freestyle evenings put on by the local independant MJ operator.Is this just local politics or is this the general trend.
Either way,isn't this the most rediculous situation
This prompted me to do a Google search of Norwich venues. I found a picture which might explain why Ceroc might not want their employees to visit the competition. If this is the crew uniform and all the girls look like this I'd be going every week!!!
Coincidence or not?
One of those is allegedly one who has been banned(she wasn't a teacher when the photograph was taken)
I'm willing to be her studentOriginally Posted by djtrev
I look at it quite simply. Ceroc is a business. Teachers are its employees. Why condone your employees contributing to the profits of your business rivals? Teachers surely know the score before they take up the reins
Who is stopping them? Is it Ceroc telling them they can't go, or is it the independant saying they're not welcome?
I think it more a "contractor" relationship than an employer-employee one - if only because quite a few teachers teach in different adjoining franchises.I look at it quite simply. Ceroc is a business. Teachers are its employees. Why condone your employees contributing to the profits of your business rivals? Teachers surely know the score before they take up the reins
And I also think that a teacher generally has a "sponsor", i.e. the franchise owner, who has dibs on that teacher's time for a specific period, in return for sponsoring that teacher's training.
So it's not quite that simple.
I pretty much agree with the general point though, teachers aren't punters, and should generally be aware that they can be seen as "on duty" at all times. Whether banning is "right" or not, I dunno, it depends on the circumstances I guess. But I suspect if Ceroc HQ tried to ban teachers in the London area from going to Hipsters or Funky Lush, they'd not be popular
What b~llocks!I look at it quite simply. Ceroc is a business. Teachers are its employees. Why condone your employees contributing to the profits of your business rivals? Teachers surely know the score before they take up the reins
No employer can tell you where and when your can spend you free time or own money.
Dancing is entertainment for teachers as well as everyone else.
So if all the teachers friends are going to a local non ceroc freestyle are you saying that he/she has to stay at home or not go what rubbish.
If this is a local or national policy .......I think its CR@P.
Long live diversity in all walks of life.
What b~llocks!
No employer can tell you where and when your can spend you free time or own money.
Dancing is entertainment for teachers as well as everyone else.
If this is a local or national policy .......I think its CR@P.
Long live diversity in all walks of life.
Can't agree with you UP.
It is entertainment for all but if you value being able to dance when and where you please then you don't become a teacher for Ceroc because you'll know it will curtail your ability to do that. If you play football at a reasonable level then you don't turn out for a Sunday morning team. Do the constabulary let you do private security work whilst you're in their employ?
I am not saying it's a position I condone but it's an understandable one.
Robert
Sorry Rob i have to disagree with you too. So if you work in Sainsburys does that mean you can't do your weekly shop in Tescos.As for the argument of UP doing security work, that's totally different as he would be getting paid for it, therefore it would be working, not his way of getting ntertainment.
Don't think the Tesco/Sains analogy holds and presume people working in those shops get some kind of staff discount (yes/no anybody?) making it attractive to buy from their own store. If not then I guess Tesco is cheaper than Sains but surely more convenient to buy from the place you work at?Sorry Rob i have to disagree with you too. So if you work in Sainsburys does that mean you can't do your weekly shop in Tescos.
I presume the reason ceroc do not want teachers (and demos if a story I have heard about locally is true) participating at other venues is that they are potentially a good draw for that other venue courtesy of their abilities and thus possibly going to take people away from the Ceroc franchise. As I said I don't necessarily agree with this school of thought but I can understand it.
What b~llocks!
No employer can tell you where and when your can spend you free time or own money.
Dancing is entertainment for teachers as well as everyone else.
So if all the teachers friends are going to a local non ceroc freestyle are you saying that he/she has to stay at home or not go what rubbish.
If this is a local or national policy .......I think its CR@P.
Long live diversity in all walks of life.
Personally I'd tend to agree. Obviously what is contracted between a two parties, is their business. However, I see this manner of banning (if it does happen) of teachers certainly as crass (displaying an insecurity within that organisation), and quite possibly counter productive. Were I to have good (and happy) customer facing people in my organisation, I'd want them to be as visible as possible!
!an
What b~llocks!
No employer can tell you where and when your can spend you free time or own money.
Dancing is entertainment for teachers as well as everyone else.
So if all the teachers friends are going to a local non ceroc freestyle are you saying that he/she has to stay at home or not go what rubbish.
If this is a local or national policy .......I think its CR@P.
Long live diversity in all walks of life.
Quote from robd
I presume the reason ceroc do not want teachers (and demos if a story I have heard about locally is true) participating at other venues is that they are potentially a good draw for that other venue courtesy of their abilities and thus possibly going to take people away from the Ceroc franchise.
More *******s!!
Quote from DD
Who is stopping them? Is it Ceroc telling them they can't go, or is it the independant saying they're not welcome?
Its Ceroc,certainly not the independant.
I think it is fair to for Ceroc to say that it’s teachers can’t teacher for the independents – they have sponsored them for their training and while they are working for Ceroc it would be unreasonable of them to teach for an independent – trade secrets and all that sort of stuff
As to attending classes or social functions – no employer has the right to prevent you doing as you wish in your free time!!!
Actually I would have thought the independents would be more worried about teachers from other venues coming along and trying to steal their customers
Yes the Sainsburys staff get a discount after working there for a certain amount of time, but equally Ceroc teachers don't have to pay to get into a Ceroc venue!
I have known this 'banning' to happen at certain venues, but not all. It seems to depend on the Franchises insecurities and lack of faith in their venues! I agree with Yliander the franchisee would be in his right to stop the teacher teaching elsewhere as they had paid for the training, it would be seen as moonlighting!
Last edited by Cruella; 22nd-January-2006 at 11:29 PM.
I'm not talking of teachers being paid to teach, I'm saying in their free time if a teacher wants to visit any other freestyle evening to dance socially then they should be free to do so. It is their time and their money so its their choice.
It is not the right of any employer to put restrictions on anyones private life IMHO.
Having 2 jobs is a totally different matter and I can concur with your thoughts re that.It does cause difficulties.
Let's see ... a franchisee pays several thousand pounds to train someone as a teacher, and then says to that person - I forbid you to attend so-n-so's freestyle nights. So the teacher thinks "f*ck you" and goes anyway. So then the franchisee's going to do what exactly? Sack the teacher? Who's going to teach for him? He's not going to get a refund on the training fees, is he?
This argument has been around for years and years.
There's always a contract to be signed between the teacher and any major dance organsation. Anybody signing the contract is fully aware of the restrictions placed upon them and it is their choice. It is a little out of order to complain about it later, even worse to simply ignore the restrictions. If you don't like the contract, don't sign.
I know, ten years or so back, Ceroc used to ban all staff from other organisations nights, including taxi dancers. I presume that is not the case now, even so, whilst some restrictions may appear a little draconian, when you are running a business that is your livelihood, you protect yourself. There have been many situations in the past where disaffected staff have abused their position. Modern Jive history is full of that sort of stuff.
Just because taxi dancers think of what they do as some light hearted 'next step' in their dance progression doesn't mean it's not serious to the people who run these things.
Don't like the restrictions in the contract, don't sign the contract. Simple.
.....
well as for myself, i do go to other freestyles in my own time.(monkey, n others!)... not just ceroc ones!!!
but.... there are certain independants that i would not attend, cuz i know i would not be welcome... purely cuz i am a ceroc teacher. ( i am not naming those companies.)
though ceroc teachers are not made to be welcome at 'certain' companies free styles..... i have seen 'their' teachers at ceroc free styles...
though you dont see ceroc pi**ing in there pants about that do you???? or it certainly doesn apply in the ceroc central area!
but hey ho......
I don't know about any other TD's, but at no point have I been told that I "may not" attend any other venue (Ceroc or "competitor") and I have not signed any contract. I have no intention of "progressing" beyond taxi-ing.
Taxi dancers are volunteers. As Ceroc is a commercial organisation and IANAL, I'm not certain of my ground here, but I can't imagine that the legal position would be that different from charity volunteering - Volunteering England has a good summary. IM inexpert O, Ceroc franchisees should be very careful that they are not implying that there is an employer/employee relationship by imposing restrictions on taxi dancers or requiring them to sign a contract.
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