Exam / grading system in Ceroc: good or bad idea?

[David Bailey]

As discussed in the "Dance levels: card system" thread; what do people think of the idea of some form of optional exam / grading system in Ceroc?

[Daisy Chain]

As discussed in the "Dance levels: card system" thread; what do people think of the idea of some form of optional exam / grading system in Ceroc?

Bad. I do it for fun.

Anyway, if it were optional, I wouldn't dare volunteer in case I failed.

Daisy

(A Blissfully Ignorant Little Flower)

[Simon r]

As discussed in the "Dance levels: card system" thread; what do people think of the idea of some form of optional exam / grading system in Ceroc?

Hmmm options seem a bit biased how about a poll

Yes good idea
Yes can see the benifits
Do not mind
No can see no benifit
No bad idea

[Andy McGregor]

So, how would the levels go?

Level 1 - Has no bounce in hand.
Level 2 - Bounces hand to every beat.
Level 3 - Bounces hand to every 2nd beat with a mini-bounce to mark the other beat.
Level 4 - Knows about bars. Bounces hand on beats 1 and 3.
Level 5 - Has no bounce in hand.

So, there we have it. You need to work your way through all the levels to end up where you started

Of course, teachers could help their students go straight to level 5 by telling them not to bounce their hands

[David Bailey]

Hmmm options seem a bit biased how about a poll

Yes good idea
Yes can see the benifits
Do not mind
No can see no benifit
No bad idea

That's pretty much what I put, didn't I?

Where's the bias? It's a 1-5 grade, with a funny-play-on-words option for the click brigade...

[Andreas]

So, how would the levels go?
Level 1 - Has no bounce in hand.
Level 2 - Would love to bounce but doesn't know what to.
Level 3 - Bounces hand to every beat.
Level 4 - Bounces hand to every 2nd beat with a mini-bounce to mark the other beat.
Level 5 - Knows about bars. Bounces hand on beats 1 and 3.
Level 6 - Has no bounce in hand.
Level 7 - Has no hands, bounces with head on beat 1.

Looks about right.

[LMC]

"Exam" is just a horrible nasty scary word. "Assessment" strikes me as better (and it's longer, higher fog index often makes things nice and fuzzy).

Seriously, if the grading system is going to be mainly practical - say, two dances with each of two "assessors", with informal feedback and maybe just a short "This person qualifies for advanced classes and gets a *holographic* ( ) membership card to prove it" then why make it sound formal?

I still disagree with formal division for regular beginner/intermediate followed by freestyle nights. IMO, it would be far better to encourage a culture where it is the norm for beginners to consult with taxi dancers before moving up - and if they don't, or are evidently trying intermediate too soon, they can be tactfully asked to consult a teacher/experienced taxi about whatever is holding them back - for their own benefit rather than as a test.

[Gadget]

As discussed in the "Dance levels: card system" thread; what do people think of the idea of some form of optional exam / grading system in Ceroc?

But how do you define "optional"? If you then have workshops/classes/lines based on the results, then it's hardly optional - you must complete the exam before attending.

If you truly mean optional, then what's the point? Why not get a private lesson or discuss your dancing with a teacher? If you want to guage your dancing so you can see how you are improving, why not have a 'pop quiz' self-assessment (or partner assessment) thing where you can be scored?
{hmmm....Dance Quiz (post)... or how sleazy are you? (post)}

Perhaps something similar, but a bit more formal and with some practical things like balance and double spinning?

[ChrisA]

I still disagree with formal division for regular beginner/intermediate followed by freestyle nights.

Why are you disagreeing with something that no-one is advocating?

No one is suggesting this... IMO using language like this adds an emotional payload to the debate that we don't need.

I mean, I disagree with teachers walking round the class smacking people over the head with a baseball bat whenever they can't learn quickly enough.

..though a haddock would be Ok...

[Lynn]

But how do you define "optional"? If you then have workshops/classes/lines based on the results, then it's hardly optional - you must complete the exam before attending.

But surely the workshop itself is 'optional'? Unless you are now suggestion you must complete a workshop in order to continue dancing...

In practice it would mean having your level assessed before being allowed to attend certain more 'advanced' workshops that assume a certain level of knowledge. Its something that really should happen already, but probably doesn't enough.

[ChrisA]

Bad. I do it for fun.

Interesting point this.

A question, if I may:

Do you think you have:

- more fun,
- less fun,
- or about the same amount of fun...

...as those that are fussy enough about learning to dance to think that it might be a good plan to assess dancers in some way before letting them loose in advanced classes?

[marty_baby]

Interesting point this.

A question, if I may:

Do you think you have:

- more fun,
- less fun,
- or about the same amount of fun...

...as those that are fussy enough about learning to dance to think that it might be a good plan to assess dancers in some way before letting them loose in advanced classes?

Hiya Chris,

Sorry mate, I've read this 3 times, and I can't figure out what you are trying to say!


Martin


PS:
You posts are good on this forum - but this one is ...um... indechiperable by me... perhaps me stuuupud!

[Paul F]

I mean, I disagree with teachers walking round the class smacking people over the head with a baseball bat whenever they can't learn quickly enough.

..though a haddock would be Ok...

You wouldnt have liked my classes then

On the point of qualification, could the two sides exist seperately:

1. the group of social dancers that are not interested in qualification and
2. those that want to take advantage of specialiast workshops organised by level

I think they could and is something i have been advocating for, what seems like, years. Unfortunately I dont have the time to organise anything.
As long as things carry on as they are now and nothing is taken away from the regular workshops/freestyles etc, adding a few specialist workshops for those that want to take the painstaking exams - fair enough.

This way people have the choice whether to sit the exam (or whatever you call it) or not. Up to them.

[LMC]

Why are you disagreeing with something that no-one is advocating?

I was disagreeing with something, not someone, - i.e. the principle of dividing people up on a regular class night, which was discussed on the "other" thread. No emotional payload intended.

[Lynn]

Its something that really should happen already, but probably doesn't enough.

Edit - I meant 'should happen already' informally. This would bring a more structured means of doing it into practice.

[ChrisA]

Hiya Chris,

Sorry mate, I've read this 3 times, and I can't figure out what you are trying to say!

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Daisy Chain said that she thought the grading idea was a bad thing because she dances for fun.

This suggests to me that she somehow thinks (and maybe others do too) that those that would support grading in some form don't dance for fun, or that the fun would be reduced in some way if it was introduced.

I dance for fun too. But I don't see how introducing an assessment of some kind for people that want to do Advanced classes would make dancing any less fun.

So I asked the question, probably not very clearly. I'll try again. I am broadly in favour of getting people assessed before they get let loose in Advanced classes.

So does Daisy Chain think I don't dance for fun? Does she think she has more fun than me?

I guess it's a rhetorical question, at the end of the day. I have lots of fun dancing - I wouldn't do it if I didn't. However it's not fun for people to do classes way beyond their ability; sometimes it's not safe for them to try, and it's not fun for those that can cope with the lessons at that level to have to act as teachers and protectors for those that can't.

[ChrisA]

I was disagreeing with something, not someone, - i.e. the principle of dividing people up on a regular class night, which was discussed on the "other" thread. No emotional payload intended.

Sorry, I've been through much of the other thread, and I can't find anywhere, anyone proposing that there should be segregation on regular class nights.

AFAICT, that doesn't happen even in Australia, where, AIUI, Blue card lines only happen when there's what they call an "Intermediate/Advanced" class.

But I can't see anyone proposing segregation in the UK Intermediate classes. Could you provide a link if I've missed one?

[Andy McGregor]

About a thousand years ago I did my ballroom and latin medals. The exam was a simple format. You danced with your teacher, who backled you like mad using her ample busom, and a stern looking woman watched you over her horn-rimmed glasses. Some time later you found out what level of pass you got with some notes on your report giving you tips for development. Once you'd got your medal you could do the class for the next medal.

The difference between my experience of ballroom/latin and MJ is that the former teaches you with medals/exams in mind, the latter teaches you to be a better freestyler. So, if we were to go down the exam route we'd end up with a syllabus too. IMHO there is probably nothing to stop the IDTA adding MJ to their list of latin dances. While they were at it they'd probably add Salsa and Argentine Tango. And once the IDTA had got hold of it they'd develop an examination programme.

Would that situation scare Ceroc - you betcha

[LMC]

I've also re-read the thread, and you're right Chris. Apologies for faulty recall on my part.

[Lynn]

The difference between my experience of ballroom/latin and MJ is that the former teaches you with medals/exams in mind, the latter teaches you to be a better freestyler. So, if we were to go down the exam route we'd end up with a syllabus too.

This wouldn't be a good thing for MJ - but is this really what would happen? I think the examples from the Australian dancers give us a better idea of how introducing some level of assessment into MJ would work. Has it had a detrimental impact on freestyling?