Dance levels: "Card" system?

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So what's the advantages of doing a routine as opposed to geting a partner?

They both are one-on-one.
I would assume that with a single partner you can work on stuff you want to and areas that you see flaws in yourselves. (As opposed to being told this is what we are doing and this is how we are doing it.)

What does a routine gain over a simple partnership?

{edit}

1.Helps you appreciate the music more and how you put moves to them.
So does working with a partner or teacher or working out a solo(ie one couple) routine/move and how it can be timed with music.

2. Helps you with balance and the importance of precise leading and following so the moves are done correctly.
? I would contend this - would it not simply help move to where you should be rather than listening to the lead/follower and acting/reacting accordingly?

3. You get more time with the teacher to correct mistakes and often you hear things that you miss in class.
More time than a a couple get with a private lesson with a teacher? More focused on your dancing rather than getting you to dance like everyone else?

4. Teaches you the importance of positioning and not to over rotate and the importance of doing the move efficiently.
? Really? Might teach better floorcraft and awareness, but I don't see how it would teach anything else better than a couple.

5. Builds confidence and improves presentation/styling
True. But with a couple practicing for a competition, they would be working on this aspect as well - and not just to match everyone else, but to go to their own extents.

6. it is fun and often re-inspires you with your general dancing
I'll give you that one.

7.helps with partner appreciation and floorcraft.
Partner appreciation? How?

8.etc....etc...
which are???

Boy you guys like argueing for the sake of it no one has ever said that you can not get this from other ways we just say that routines can help your dancing.

Where did this chip come from??

Did you guys get dropped on your head in a routine as a baby or something!!

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Nah, I'm trying to give them up, I hear they cause cancer or something....

This would explain your distast and misunderstanding about them then!

[David Bailey]

*giggle*– lies all lies – try one and you will know the truth

I'll resist, I am strong. OK, I'm lazy and forgetful, how's that?

“the heat” as you put it is coming I think from the fact that is that you keep going back to the gold card assessment equals having to do a full performance routine

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that, I simply said that there seemed to be a large routine-based assessment for Gold Card.

It turns out this is not the case, and thanks again to Alice for calmly and patiently clarifying the situation to me - basically, the Aussie Forum thread was talking about both Gold and Blue cards, and it wasn't clear which post referred to which card, hence my confusion.

I think perhaps you would have been better off aksing specific questions about the Gold card and it’s requirements on the Aussie fourm – as it is an Australian thing and there are many more people there with experience of it to explain

as a further bit of explanation of what a gold card means it does impact on what level of some competitions you have to enter - if you have a gold card in CMJ Sydney and Ceroc Perth comps you are required to enter at advanced level.

This thread is on this forum - and I started it here because I wondered whether people in the UK thought that the card system, or a variant of some such system, could be useful over here.

Despite what some people think, I do have an open mind occasionally, and I think (on balance) some sort of assessment system, if done properly, could very much help progress Ceroc teaching and dancing in the UK. Which is the only reason I'm banging on about it...

[David Bailey]

it may be a routine but the bulk of it does need to still be lead and followed

As you've cunningly discerned, I've stayed clear of performance routines, it's too much like line dancing for my tastes (I run away when "It's Madison Time" is announced too)

routines are very good for developing skill in not over rotating and placing to the front – this is very much a performance skill. Can also show you the basics of how to set up moves so that the line/frame/pose you want to display is shown to the audience

it’s a way to build up confidence and presentation skills with out having to go out there all on your own – remember safety in numbers :smile:

Ah-ha!

This is the key thing I'm talking about when I say differences.

Based on what I've read and heard, a lot of advanced teaching in Oz seems to be oriented around visuals and presentation, i.e. focussing on how it looks.

You generally don't get much of that type of teaching in the UK, we're well behind you on that score. With the exception of the occasional "Competition dancing" workshop run by Nigel and Nina, A lot of advanced teaching in the UK seems to be more focussed on how it feels - connection, intention, and so on.

This would explain your distast and misunderstanding about them then!

Possibly. I am just a beginner.

Boy you guys like argueing for the sake of it

Darn, you caught us out. But, by Gadget standards, that post was a mere brief aide-memoire, barely worth mentioning...

[Gadget]

Boy you guys like argueing for the sake of it no one has ever said that you can not get this from other ways we just say that routines can help your dancing.

isn't this a forum?
In the context of this thread and the discussion about routines, they were being proposed as the best guideline for determining a truley "advanced" dancer - ie a "Gold Card" holder. So the implication is that to be a truley "advanced" dancer, one must excell in performing routines.

This being the case, I raised the question what exactly can learning routines give you that standard dancing (with a partner) cannot?

an alternative yes - Soft HARDLEY!

Perhaps. I think that the focus is on different areas of dancing - too similar to make a good comparison: each element of 'dance partner' practice could focus on stuff you would get in 'dance routine' practice. And visa versa. The main trade off seems to be individual focus and development Vs comradeship.

have you ever tried to find either a partner to practise with or dance partner? neither are particulary easy to come by I can assure.

I have been/had a practice partner {}. It's nice to have someone to give feedback and ask opinions (and try stuff out on... but then again, I have been known to do this on a regular night with some of the 'usual suspects' ) Perhaps I should ressurect this thread and save them

I have no desire to compete, so a I've never looked for a dance partner.

But, by Gadget standards, that post was a mere brief aide-memoire, barely worth mentioning...

[Yliander]

I'll resist, I am strong. OK, I'm lazy and forgetful, how's that?

I'm pretty sure I didn't say that, I simply said that there seemed to be a large routine-based assessment for Gold Card.

It turns out this is not the case, and thanks again to Alice for calmly and patiently clarifying the situation to me - basically, the Aussie Forum thread was talking about both Gold and Blue cards, and it wasn't clear which post referred to which card, hence my confusion.


This thread is on this forum - and I started it here because I wondered whether people in the UK thought that the card system, or a variant of some such system, could be useful over here.

this thread maybe on this forum but the thread and posts that confused you were in a different forum - so to me it would have made more sense to ask about gold care assessments requirements there and on this forum once you had an answer ask what people thought of that.

Despite what some people think, I do have an open mind occasionally, and I think (on balance) some sort of assessment system, if done properly, could very much help progress Ceroc teaching and dancing in the UK. Which is the only reason I'm banging on about it...

this is very honourable of you

[David Bailey]

this thread maybe on this forum but the thread and posts that confused you were in a different forum - so to me it would have made more sense to ask about gold care assessments requirements there and on this forum once you had an answer ask what people thought of that.

In hindsight, yes - so many quotes from that thread. I notice there's a Gold Cards thread appeared there now though

this is very honourable of you

I wish - pig-stubborn is more like it.

[Yliander]

In hindsight, yes - so many quotes from that thread. I notice there's a Gold Cards thread appeared there now though

yes Alice had posted in the original thread but a new thread gets peoples attention much more

I wish - pig-stubborn is more like it.

and stubborn is a bad thing?

[Andreas]

I think (on balance)

Now THAT is good to know

[Gary]

...A good dancer is not (should/can not be) rated by how well he/she dancers with a person of similar or higher level (if that was your definition of appropriate). You recognise them by their ability to cope 'elegantly and safely' in difficult circumstances, such as a follower who has yet to learn to follow or a lead who has yet to learn to lead and does not remember signals.

That seems to me like saying "a good hurdler isn't recognised by how well they hurdle on a good day, but how well they hurdle when you tie their shoelaces together".

It's nice when a great dancer also makes beginners look good, but I wouldn't say "huh, he's not so great, watch what happens when he dances with a beginner".

[Alice]

That seems to me like saying "a good hurdler isn't recognised by how well they hurdle on a good day, but how well they hurdle when you tie their shoelaces together".

Tee hee!! Great image
Seriously though, the man has a point.

[Robert Winter]

Another "interesting" thread.

I will just throw my 2 cents worth of petrol onto the fire (though, with todays price of oil it will not be nearly as inflammatory as it use to be ).

We do use routines as an assessment for Gold cards. But it is important to not over stress the word routine in this sentence and to look at the words that are not said. "8 weeks during which teachers are watching you for two hours at a time and will take video footage of your dancing and give you personal feedback on that".

This is the most important aspect of our assessment process and for me makes the system about as good as it can get. I am not going to argue the pros and cons of a card system, but if one wishes to be assessed then I think it is much better for that assessment to be ongoing than to be based on a single freestyle dance.

[Ste]

Do you get a yellow card if you trip someone up and a red card if you are really rubbish?

[Yliander]

Do you get a yellow card if you trip someone up and a red card if you are really rubbish?

in Perth (Aus) your yellow card was when you moved from beginners to intermediate

i do recall a red card being issued once - but think that was more to do with mischief than actual dancing *giggle*

[Alice]

in Perth (Aus) your yellow card was when you moved from beginners to intermediate

i do recall a red card being issued once - but think that was more to do with mischief than actual dancing *giggle*

He he he...

Another company in Sydney has a card for when you move from beginners to intermediate (you had to be assessed). They don't have a blue card equivalent however (or IA classes for that matter)- think they might have a gold card for advanced classes once or twice a year...but ever hardly spoken of.

[adss]

So no offense intended, Adrian.

I hate to come across self centred, but was this comment referring to me? Keep in mind that my login is "Adss" and NOT "Ads" ... I'll let Ads know about your comment when I'll speak to him on the phone next.

[adss]

That seems to me like saying "a good hurdler isn't recognised by how well they hurdle on a good day, but how well they hurdle when you tie their shoelaces together".

It's nice when a great dancer also makes beginners look good, but I wouldn't say "huh, he's not so great, watch what happens when he dances with a beginner".

Gary, LIVE IT ALONE!!! I love this definition of Advance Dancers as I can finally refer myself as one: particularly as I can lead at least three (on a good day) beginner moves with first timers.

[David Bailey]

That seems to me like saying "a good hurdler isn't recognised by how well they hurdle on a good day, but how well they hurdle when you tie their shoelaces together".

Interesting image, but I think the point is more that anyone can run fast when the hurdles are 1" high - only the good hurdlers can make it look smooth when they're set at 3 feet or whatever.

Although I'm not sure a co-operative endeavour such as partner dancing can be compared with a solo sport such as hurdling. But yes, it's quite funny

[Andreas]

That seems to me like saying "a good hurdler isn't recognised by how well they hurdle on a good day, but how well they hurdle when you tie their shoelaces together".

That is indeed a very funny image that you project here. But the analogy is heavily flawed and you know that. Trying to gather votes by ridiculing an argument with a flawed analogy is something not even I or DJ would resort to.

It's nice when a great dancer also makes beginners look good, but I wouldn't say "huh, he's not so great, watch what happens when he dances with a beginner".

Well, actually I would. I don't think very highly of so-called advanced dancers that can do sod all with beginners and lower intermediates.

Seriously though, the man has a point.

If you think about the analogy that Gary used and try to apply it to dancing and my argument you will in fact realise: he doesn't. He does have a point to make in what he wrote afterwards.

"8 weeks during which teachers are watching you for two hours at a time and will take video footage of your dancing and give you personal feedback on that".

Now that is something I agree with. I guess it is not surprising that you actually put thought into it because you developed the idea. Due to my reservations of judging dancers by their ability to dance with people of similar levels I wouldn't call it 'as good as it gets' but having them under close observation for such a long time is certainly a good means, more so if the emphasis really is on checking up on their technique.

I hate to come across self centred, but was this comment referring to me? Keep in mind that my login is "Adss" and NOT "Ads" ... I'll let Ads know about your comment when I'll speak to him on the phone next.

Yeah sorry. Noticed too late that you have two 's' at the end of your nick name.

[Andreas]

Interesting image, but I think the point is more that anyone can run fast when the hurdles are 1" high - only the good hurdlers can make it look smooth when they're set at 3 feet or whatever.

Although I'm not sure a co-operative endeavour such as partner dancing can be compared with a solo sport such as hurdling. But yes, it's quite funny

I knew we would be broadcasting at the same frequency.