Performing. . .

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gadget
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole point to dancing is to show off -

Ok Gadget, you're wrong

The whole point of dancing is that it can be anything to anybody. Some people do it as a way to show off (to themselves / others / partners etc..), but dancing can be a very effective way to communicate / relate with other people, that is not based on language...
Dancing, can be a way to get a physical buzz / work-out etc...
Dancing can be a way to relax and interact (physically) safely with other people.
Dancing can just be a social thing, that you do just to meet friends and have a drink and a chat...
Dancing can be all of the above, and a lot more too!

I would hate to think that everyone perceived dancing as a showing off thing, it can be and there is nothing wrong with showing off, but everyone has different expectations.

Franck.

[Sal]

Originally posted by TheTramp
That's a good idea. Though, I'm so blind that if I tried that, I probably wouldn't be able to see my partner either. Not sure if that works quite so well....

Originally posted by Gus
in competitions I don't wear my glasses or contact lenses so I can't see the spectators .... find it less intimidating that way.

I know we have touched on this in another thread, but is this everyone getting their excuses in early for blackpool? Oh, sorry, I couldn't see my partner!

[TheTramp]

Well, I bet that Laili (my partner) wishes that she could use that excuse!!

Steve

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gus
...in competitions I don't wear my glasses or contact lenses so I can't see the spectators .... find it less intimidating that way.

I know the feeling. I used to wear glasses at school, and only took them off to play rugby. I couldn't see the ball too well, but it didn't matter - I was a forward.

Then at university I started to wear contacts, and tried playing rugby with them. It is a far scarier game when you can see everyone running at you...

David

[Gus]

Originally posted by Sal
I know we have touched on this in another thread, but is this everyone getting their excuses in early for blackpool? Oh, sorry, I couldn't see my partner!

Ahhhh ... but what excuses are there that really count? Its all down to on the day, two tracks (in the final) and the opinion of the judges ..... if you haven't prepared enough in advance ... well thats no-one's fault but your own ... its all down to how well you do on the day THATS what makes it so great, from a spectators' viewpoint ... a well known couple can have a shocker and a couple of total unknowns can get a track they really gel with and blow the opposition away!

Let the fun begin .... forget the excuses ... just get ready for the hangovers

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Franck
Ok Gadget, you're wrong

..ahhh a bite...

I would hate to think that everyone perceived dancing as a showing off thing, it can be and there is nothing wrong with showing off, but everyone has different expectations.

There has to be some element of 'show off' in it:
- for a physical workout you would go to the gym
- for a physical 'buzz' and you would do an adrenalin sport
- for relaxing, interacting and socialising you would go down the pub with friends.

...no matter what your primary motives are to dance, there is always a strong element of display and exhibitionism in them.
If not, then why learn a new move - why introduce 'style' into your dance - why seek out dancers you dance well with - why go onto the dance floor in the first place ?

"Showing off" is not ostentatous grandstanding {well... with one or two exceptions}, but a matter of presenting yourself & your partner's interpritation of the music using your knowledge of moves and style of movement. ie dancing.

[Franck]

Originally posted by Gadget
..ahhh a bite...

Indeed!

There has to be some element of 'show off' in it:

Nope, I still disagree...

- for a physical workout you would go to the gym

Not necessarily, dancing is more fun and socially more useful a skill. There are many ways to get a work out, going to the Gym is only one of them.

- for a physical 'buzz' and you would do an adrenalin sport

Ceroc / dancing can be an adrenalin sport, and whether it gives you as big a buzz as Bungee Jumping is irrelevant, what matters is that it does... Not just adrenalin, but also endorphins, which is why people feel better coming back from a good night of Ceroc after a hard day at work.

- for relaxing, interacting and socialising you would go down the pub with friends.

Again, that is not true, pubs / clubs have become unwelcoming for some people, I expect it is very hard for a woman on her own to go to a pub without being seen and targeted as 'available'. Not so at Ceroc, people come on their own, and can feel safe, while having a great time, as well as making new friends...

...no matter what your primary motives are to dance, there is always a strong element of display and exhibitionism in them.
If not, then why learn a new move - why introduce 'style' into your dance - why seek out dancers you dance well with - why go onto the dance floor in the first place ?

No, I reckon, you cannot make that generalization, some do, maybe most will have a show-off streak, but not everyone does, and when they do, it might be a side-effect of dancing, rather than something they seek.

Franck.

[TheTramp]

Sorry Gadget

But I'm pretty much with Franck on this one. I was gonna post to say most of what he said, but he beat me to it.

There are undoubtably many who enjoy the more ostentatious part of dancing (obviously excluding myself here), but I'm sure that there are many people who come for the social and health aspects of dancing, who don't hog the limelight, and just do what they enjoy in some corner of the room.

Steve

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Gadget
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole point to dancing is to show off

Im afraid i disagree with this too, dancing does not have a 'point' as such, as Franck stated. Some very shy people indeed go to Ceroc and some cultures are heavily into their traditional dance and woudltn consider what they have been brought up with 'showing off'

In fact to sum up I feel oblidged to quote Sensei Lee again, who (when using dance as a metaphor for martial arts) stated that 'if the purpose of dance was to get from one spot on the floor to another, the fastest dancer would be the best - but the purpose of dance is the dance itself'

sorry - thats not word for word but you get the gist

[PeterL]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Sorry Gadget

But I'm pretty much with Franck on this one. I was gonna post to say most of what he said, but he beat me to it.

There are undoubtably many who enjoy the more ostentatious part of dancing (obviously excluding myself here), but I'm sure that there are many people who come for the social and health aspects of dancing, who don't hog the limelight, and just do what they enjoy in some corner of the room.

Steve

I have to agree with theTramp here.

When dancing I am in the moment, if anyone is watching I would not know and not care, the way a dance feels to me is more important than the way it looks to others. For example I recieved some compliments on a dance I had the other week. The lady I danced with danced beutifully and from an aesthetic point of view it looked good. My own feelings on the dance were that I enjoyed it but not as much as a dance where I feel totally in control. Because she was dancing with so much style a lot of my leads were missed and I had to compensate and do other moves.


As far as the reasons I dance are concerned they have changed over time and have never been to show off.

My original reasons for starting ceroc were that I had moved to a new city and knew no-one.
The reason I kept going back was the challenge of being able to do something that I found very difficult as being dispraxic I can't even tie my own shoelaces properly.

The reason I go now is the enjoyment, having broken the barrier of difficultie I love to dance. This is a departure for me as normally when I learn to do something that is difficult to me I get bored as the challenge has gone and stop doing it, for example this is why I quit being a croupier.

[Gadget]

{just replying to this one because it's the latest, but my view still hasn't been swayed...}

Originally posted by PeterL
When dancing I am in the moment, if anyone is watching I would not know and not care, the way a dance feels to me is more important than the way it looks to others.

So you are not showing off for others to see, but for your own 'inner self' - it's still an attempt to find the best way to display your talents and to feel the music.

For example <->

You dance for enjoyment, not prase - I would say that this is true for the vast majority of us: Attention seeking and looking for flattery do not always talley with "showing off"

My original reasons for starting ceroc were that I had moved to a new city and knew no-one.

Why choose dancing? Why not golf, bowling, raleigh driving, a martial art, a night class, ...
There are several alternatives that can match the criteria of meeting new people, having a new challenge, doing something to keep fit... what is the element that Dancing has over the rest of them?
I propose that it's the 'cool' factor; learning to dance is a seemingly atainable match for that self-portrait that we all want to attain. Movies, tv and live events have left us saying "I want to look like that" when the hero/heroin glides around the dance floor or dances with heat and passion, oblivious to the surroundings.
{I've come back to this half-composed post from lunch and have no idea what I was rambling about...}

when I learn to do something that is difficult to me I get bored as the challenge has gone and stop doing it

I think that Dancing will always be a challenge to me - just when I suceed at something I thought of at one point as 'difficult', it opens a whole new bunch of even more difficult things!

[TheTramp]

Why choose dancing? Why not golf, bowling, raleigh driving, a martial art, a night class, ...

Why not choose dancing??

And lets face it, as beginners, people are not usually worried about 'showing off'. People are usually more worried about how crap they look. For some people that continues well past the beginner stages.

I doubt that many people start dancing with the thought in their head about their future show off potential. I mean, not even I did that.

Steve

[DavidB]

There is an element of showing off in dancing - or at least of being on a dance floor, and not showing yourself up.

At a muggles dance, you would have to be a pretty good individual dancer to get anything like the praise that a beginner could get.

David

[Dancing Veela]

Originally posted by DavidB


At a muggles dance, you would have to be a pretty good individual dancer to get anything like the praise that a beginner could get.

Don't talk about muggles to me!!!!!!!!!!

[Gadget]

Originally posted by TheTramp
And lets face it, as beginners, people are not usually worried about 'showing off'. People are usually more worried about how crap they look.

If they are worried about how bad they look, then obviously they want to look good - and surely looking good is equivelent to showing off?

I doubt that many people start dancing with the thought in their head about their future show off potential. I mean, not even I did that.

No? {}

I doubt it as well; not so much 'future show off potential' as expectations of what they will dance like at the end of it.
I don't care if spectators see me as a "show off" - I would be flattered if I even made that much of an impact - but I want to dance with a level of anticipation and guiance that moves flows like liquid. When I see other dancers doing this I think they are showing off their skill, they look great, and I want to emulate them.

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by TheTramp
Why not choose dancing??

And lets face it, as beginners, people are not usually worried about 'showing off'. People are usually more worried about how crap they look.

tell me about it - i consider myself the most inconsistent dancer going, i have such a big build up of low self esteem when im dancing badly that i just got worse

i may not be the only one

[Graham]

Originally posted by Gadget
I don't care if spectators see me as a "show off" - I would be flattered if I even made that much of an impact

To be clear, I'm not intending this as a personal remark about anyone, but as one who sits out fairly often (and therefore watches other dancers a lot), there is a big difference between "making an impact" because of your dancing, and being spotted as a show-off. It is often clear within a few bars if someone is a show-off, and it's not because they're doing interesting things or have flowing moves, but just their style/attitude, in the same way you can easily see someone flirting with their partner, or someone looking bored.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Graham
there is a big difference between "making an impact" because of your dancing, and being spotted as a show-off.

That's it - it's the "making an impact" that I was aiming for; but I don't see too much difference between trying to 'make an impact' and showing off

[Gus]

Originally posted by Gadget
That's it - it's the "making an impact" that I was aiming for; but I don't see too much difference between trying to 'make an impact' and showing off

Its a state of mind or maybe more a state of context. The same words said in a conversation can be either meant as a compliment or as a biting remark ... its down to context. I think most people would inately know when a dancing couple are actively trying to make their dancing look good and when they are trying to show off to anyone who may be watching .... though sometimes the border between these two styles can be subtle.

[Bill]

Originally posted by Gadget
That's it - it's the "making an impact" that I was aiming for; but I don't see too much difference between trying to 'make an impact' and showing off

The difference might be that some folk make an impact without really trying and otehrs can make a real effort to look the part and do lots of moves that people will notice.

I've referred to him several times but Gilbert from Edinburgh is as smooth and elegant a dancer as you'll see up here and he makes an impact because he's good but he isn't showing off. He dances 'with' his partner in a real sense but there are other men I know who will attempt to do every complex move they know in attempt to make an impact with the woman and with anyone watching. Instead of the aclaim he might expect the chances are that the audience are thinking 'what a prat'

Like others I started dancing because of an empty social life after divorce and then stayed because it was fun and the other dancers were really nice.

My primary concern is not to be noticed -- despite appearances (though can't deny a compliment is great for the ego every now and again ) - but to ensure my partner has an enjoyable dance and has some fun.

I still don't enjoy competing but I enjoy dancing with new people and have never got over the buzz from being asked to dance by a woman - it's such a lovely compliment . I still haven't got past the stage of being intimidated by groups of women together and asking one to dance in case it looks as if one is being specially 'selected'. Much easier when a woman is by herself or standing at the edge tapping her feet and clearly keen to dance.

So I do want to be noticed at times but there are nights when I want to dance quietly in a corner and be completely invisible. Says a lot about my odd pesonality :sorry