Punishment

[Paul F]

This thread may, possibly, cause a bit of an emotive response so if you read past the first post then dont complain later

The reason I am posting is to express a belief and to hear any arguments for and against. As a result I am open to changing my mind.

Ok.

I believe the 2 'lads' convicted of killing Anthony Walker should be put to death.

A knee-jerk reaction to the traversty of events? Possibly. A need for capital punishment for repeat serious offenders only? Possibly.

This, however, is how I feel right now. Prison, IMO, is no punishment for the likes of these two. Its probably better quality of living than they get outside.

I apologise if I have offended anyone.

[Missy D]

This thread may, possibly, cause a bit of an emotive response so if you read past the first post then dont complain later

The reason I am posting is to express a belief and to hear any arguments for and against. As a result I am open to changing my mind.

Ok.

I believe the 2 'lads' convicted of killing Anthony Walker should be put to death.

A knee-jerk reaction to the traversty of events? Possibly. A need for capital punishment for repeat serious offenders only? Possibly.
This, however, is how I feel right now.

I am with you on this one Paul!

[mooncalf]

This thread may, possibly, cause a bit of an emotive response so if you read past the first post then dont complain later

The reason I am posting is to express a belief and to hear any arguments for and against. As a result I am open to changing my mind.

Ok.

I believe the 2 'lads' convicted of killing Anthony Walker should be put to death.

A knee-jerk reaction to the traversty of events? Possibly. A need for capital punishment for repeat serious offenders only? Possibly.

This, however, is how I feel right now. Prison, IMO, is no punishment for the likes of these two. Its probably better quality of living than they get outside.

I apologise if I have offended anyone.

Would you punish people who blow up pubs in Guildford in the same way?

[Paul F]

Would you punish people who blow up pubs in Guildford in the same way?

Firstly, if it was proved that they were responsible in a court of law and

Secondly, the circumstances meant they knew they would take human life eg. if they blew up a pub at 3:00pm ......

then yes. The only leway I have ever given to my view is that it maybe should be restricted to repeat serious offenders. I am starting to come round, however, to the view of some American states that even the first offence warrants the death penalty.

[mooncalf]

Firstly, if it was proved that they were responsible in a court of law and

Secondly, the circumstances meant they knew they would take human life eg. if they blew up a pub at 3:00pm ......

then yes. The only leway I have ever given to my view is that it maybe should be restricted to repeat serious offenders. I am starting to come round, however, to the view of some American states that even the first offence warrants the death penalty.

And if they were subequently found to be innocent?

[stewart38]

This thread may, possibly, cause a bit of an emotive response so if you read past the first post then dont complain later

The reason I am posting is to express a belief and to hear any arguments for and against. As a result I am open to changing my mind.

Ok.

I believe the 2 'lads' convicted of killing Anthony Walker should be put to death.

A knee-jerk reaction to the traversty of events? Possibly. A need for capital punishment for repeat serious offenders only? Possibly.

This, however, is how I feel right now. Prison, IMO, is no punishment for the likes of these two. Its probably better quality of living than they get outside.

I apologise if I have offended anyone.

The old death penalty argument

ie its better to have 3 dead people then one

sorry i dont buy it

ps before anyone goes down the line im soft

Id put them in prison for LIFE

pps why is the tarrif double because it was racist

[TheTramp]

And if they were subequently found to be innocent?

Bring them back to life....

[mooncalf]

Bring them back to life....

Of course. Why don't I ever see the obvious?

[Paul F]

And if they were subequently found to be innocent?

That would be terrible but an outcome I would accept as being a horrible mis-carriage of justice.

More often than not people suspected of a crime are not completely innocent bystanders but rather scum themselves. I realise this is a major assumption but it is one that I have to make with regard to my answer at the top of this post.

[TheTramp]

Of course. Why don't I ever see the obvious?

Don't know. Seemed pretty straightforward to me...

[Feelingpink]

I went to the most enlightening talk at Samaritans about six months ago. It was from a couple of prison 'listeners' (Samaritans who are prisoners), deputy prison governors from a men & a women's prisons and someone else who was on the prison mental health team. There were something like 80% of inmates with diagnosed mental health problems. The term "care in the community" seemed to have moved to being "care in the prisons". There were anecdotes about prisoners who never wanted to leave because they couldn't cope with the outside world - and would commit a crime as soon as they left, so they could return to a safe world.

Perhaps this backs up your "prison is too good for them" view (if I've understood correctly) ... but for me, I now wonder about the sanity or otherwise of a majority of convicted criminals and therefore whether it would be right to kill someone because they have mental health problems.

[mooncalf]

That would be terrible but an outcome I would accept as being a horrible mis-carriage of justice.

More often than not people suspected of a crime are not completely innocent bystanders but rather scum themselves. I realise this is a major assumption but it is one that I have to make with regard to my answer at the top of this post.

No - you're allowed to change your mind when you realise you've made an error of judgement.

[Paul F]

Id put them in prison for LIFE

I see what you mean but I dont see why they should get the relative comfort and facilities a prison provides , at my expense.
I thought the idea of prison was to rehabilitate people. If you are putting them in there for the rest of their natural lives whats the point. I would end their life.
The loss of another 2 lives? To me it would be no loss at all.

[Paul F]

Perhaps this backs up your "prison is too good for them" view (if I've understood correctly) ... but for me, I now wonder about the sanity or otherwise of a majority of convicted criminals and therefore whether it would be right to kill someone because they have mental health problems.

If they have mental health problems as a result of being convicted then this wouldnt be an issue anymore. If they have mental health problems as a result of serving time for a lesser offence then its up to the court to deem whether they be tried as a 'sane' case or whatever the legal term is.
I know what you mean about ....let me try and spell this...institutionalisation? Is that a word?

[Paul F]

No - you're allowed to change your mind when you realise you've made an error of judgement.

Absolutley, hence the tragic mis-carriage of justice. It would be a terrible thing. The frequency that currently happens leads me to keep my same opinion.

[mooncalf]

Absolutley, hence the tragic mis-carriage of justice. It would be a terrible thing. The frequency that currently happens leads me to keep my same opinion.

How many would be acceptable then?

[Paul F]

How many would be acceptable then?

That question doesnt make sense. If these mis-carriages of justice were happening every week then it would mean there is a problem with our judicial system rather than any punishment guidelines.
Otherwise we would have to give all criminals naughty slips until we fix the judiciary system, just in case.

[LordOfTheFiles]

How many would be acceptable then?

7. Any more would seem reckless

[LordOfTheFiles]

That question doesnt make sense. If these mis-carriages of justice were happening every week then it would mean there is a problem with our judicial system rather than any punishment guidelines.
Otherwise we would have to give all criminals naughty slips until we fix the judiciary system, just in case.

No judicial system can be 100% accurate as humans are incapable of perfect decision making. Most human logic is flawed to some degree. I think the main problem we have here is that justice is being seen as a form of vengeance, which probably better models the human condition. However laws and structures are put in place to save us from our more animal instincts and to create a less emotional and hopefully fairer system. I think the death penalty is a result of emotion rather than a just and workable system and therefore should not be considered as a suitable punishment.

[mooncalf]

7. Any more would seem reckless

Yes sir - we've had 7 mis-carriages of justice this year - (notice I got the plural on the right word) I think its about time we reviewed things. That'll take about 10 years.