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Thread: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    Spooky - I was just thinking about posing the question: Is Ceroc (MJ) a religion?
    It teaches morality and ethical codes, has places of 'worship', teachers of 'the way', encourages social interaction and friendship, people get enthsed and 'evangelical' about it...

    I'm hard pressed to find arguments against it being a religion!
    Oh, another reference to 'New Religous Movements', sorry, can't resist...

    We have had a discussion somewhere about 'is it a cult'... can't remember where.

    To be a religious a movement or group really has to have a divinity or higher spiritual being that is worshipped in some form - while there are those who are held in high esteem in MJ, and some see to be able to do dancing miracles, I don't think anyone would actually pray to them as divine! But religious groups also provide people with community, identity and a sense of belonging, and the MJ world does provide this.

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    er... it doesn't have a deity?

    I thought Amir was the god ? Im totally confused now

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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    To be a religious a movement or group really has to have a divinity or higher spiritual being that is worshipped in some form
    Do they? Can't an ideal or philisophical concept be worshiped? Does there need to be a specific figurehead?
    Can't we jsut say that we worship "Dance"? In the same way that people say they worship "God"?

  4. #24
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget
    Do they? Can't an ideal or philisophical concept be worshiped? Does there need to be a specific figurehead?
    Can't we jsut say that we worship "Dance"? In the same way that people say they worship "God"?
    I was about to say "no", but then I looked it up on dictionary.com:

    Religion
    1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
    2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
    3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
    4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


    So 3 or 4 would fit I reckon. I don't personally agree with those definitions, however - to me, religion implies worship of a deity or deities, not any of this hippy wishy-washy spirituality stuff.

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
    4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.


    So 3 or 4 would fit I reckon.
    But a spiritual leader implies that people are following spiritual teachings. (Hmm, since you are still sweeping, maybe you have some spiritual teachings to impart? )

    I know sometimes that perfect dance, perfect connection with music and partner can sometimes feel almost 'spiritual' (in the same way I suppose that people in some groups take drugs to try to achieve a 'spiritual' level) but I don't think it is.

    And I think the last point would more used to describe someone as being 'religious' about something, rather than referring to a 'religion'. But I could be wrong. I teach about New Religious Movements every week and I'm still often amazed at the extreme things some groups believe in (anyone see the programme last night about the saurin attacks in Japan 1995?).

    Personally I think that the majority of 'religion' in the world is man-made, not God-inspired.

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    But a spiritual leader implies that people are following spiritual teachings. (Hmm, since you are still sweeping, maybe you have some spiritual teachings to impart? )
    "For is it not written: 'There's a lot of stuff going on we don't know about' ?"

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    "For is it not written: 'There's a lot of stuff going on we don't know about' ?"
    Touche!

    Great choice Might just have to adopt that one for my sig!

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    Touche!

    Great choice Might just have to adopt that one for my sig!
    I'm sure we can come to a mutually-satisfactory purchase price.

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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    But a spiritual leader implies that people are following spiritual teachings. (Hmm, since you are still sweeping, maybe you have some spiritual teachings to impart? )
    People are following teachings. What elements are needed to make them "spiritual"?

    I know sometimes that perfect dance, perfect connection with music and partner can sometimes feel almost 'spiritual' (in the same way I suppose that people in some groups take drugs to try to achieve a 'spiritual' level) but I don't think it is.
    Why not? You are forming an intemate connection with your partner and the music; the dance god does not exist fully in any of these elements, but in the connection you strive to make between them.

    Personally I think that the majority of 'religion' in the world is man-made, not God-inspired.
    And with dance as your god, you have both.

  10. #30
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    I'm sure we can come to a mutually-satisfactory purchase price.
    So what's your going rate for sigs? Be warned, I know how to bargain.

    Payment method...don't tell me...let me guess...rep perchance?

  11. #31
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    One of our local dancers writes this site. The latest count was that he has only one head.

    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    FWIW once again tonight I lead a partner into a "surprise" move, and she said "Oh, my God."

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    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Where are they now? - JAMES CRONIN

    Being a pedant-in-training I was interested in the ubiquitous Wikipedia's definition of religion

    Anyway, I thought Ceroc, like Hindu worships multiple gods - Ten innit?

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