A dual thread for serious debate or for fluffyness
Thread 1
I thought by now with France in flames
5,000,000 muslims on the war path (according to the Daily Mail)
5000 cars burnt 1000 arrest made and it spreading to Germany etc
The forum would put forward the 'solutions'
Alas not to be
Thread 2
So maybe its better to discuss ones first love
Her name was Jane Lush. I was 10 she was 9, im sure she fancied me
I suppose with the internet i could see if i could look her up and see what happened to her (break up her happy marriage etc)
I dont obviously picture her as a 9yr old but as she would look now, im sure she hasnt changed much just like me
First love now thats scary
My first love's name was Stephen George. I was about 10 and he was 14. I remember going all giggly and embarassed every time he spoke to me. It wasn't the same to him as I was to young. I still see him to this day and its mad how the tables turn as for a while I met him out and about on various nights out and lets just say he was the one doing all the asking this time.....heehee
Seerious debate then Stewart,
What are the rioters rioting for?
Why should someone burning anothers property being a car or a building be seen as anything else other than a criminal.
Why is the rioting spreading? Cos theres lots of criminals jumping on the bandwagon.
Are the rioters having a go at another group? political or religous or social? NO
they are just burning other peoples property irelevant to who owns it. TOTALLY MINDLESS WANTON DESTRUCTION!!!
What are the demands of the rioters?
Who is their spokesperson/ leader with whom police/politicians could negotiate. NO ONE!
I reckon they should set curfews in the towns cities where rioting exists and shoot any persons continuing the arson attacks.
DON'T LET THE CRIMINALS RULE THE DEMOCRACY.
Your thoughts !
I think France is coming across as weakOriginally Posted by under par
It should be nipped in the bud now and if that means 10,000 arrests and calling in the Army and curfews so be it
The car burning is as you say totally indiscrimnate and apparently has been going on for months
Shoot to kill re continuing the arson attacks ? maybe a bit steep , just leg wounding should get them of the streets
The thing is the POINTS have been made (social deprevation etc) and the worlds attention has been bought to the table.
Now there is no more point to the wanted distuction, all though some Muslims are calling for segregated large autonomy type state
When one person does it, they're a criminal.
When 5,873 cars are torched, in dozens of cities, over 12 nights, it becomes something quite different.
Is this a racial / ethnic thing? Could be - the French have many more Muslims than the UK, but they're much less represented in the halls of power, and their cultural traditions are occasionally trampled on (from their point of view).
Is this a French thing? Again, could be - French society apparently does have an occasional collective"riot!" mentality, or more so than in the UK. And certainly the President, the Prime Minister and the Interior Minister haven't exactly covered themselves in glory recently.
Is this a bunch of crims jumping on the bandwagon? I don't think so - property is being destroyed, not stolen, so what's in it for them?
That's not serious debate.
What the hell you up to, UP?!?!!? That's common sense: you cant go posting that stuff around here!!
Oh, and if we're going to shoot legs, it should be thigh and not shin: more chance of hitting muscle and not shattering bones...
My first love was Darrell Dawes, we went to playschool together when I was 3 and he was 4, he used to pull all the girls hair, and drive his toy car into their legs to make them cry. I don't know why I fell for the bully! He left playschool, I thought I'd never see him again, I was devestated!First love now thats scary
My first love's name was Stephen George. I was about 10 and he was 14. I remember going all giggly and embarassed every time he spoke to me. It wasn't the same to him as I was to young
I met him again, by pure coincidence, when I was 15, and he became my first boyfriend, we went out for 2 years. Then 5 years ago (I was 27) I saw him again when my old school friend married his brother, he had 4 kids in tow, a wife who, lets just say didn't make the best of herself, and I thanked God for the lucky escape! He even asked me at one point if I ever thought of how my life would be now if we'd got married, in a very romantic way, and I could honestly say "yes, and I am thankful every day for the the fact I'm still single!"
Absolute total rubbish they are still criminals whether one or a million do it. There is still a victim and they are committing crimes.
By your argument a person who kills someone is a murderer but if lots of people go out on the rampage and kill indisciminately say the IRA or UDA then its different.
Is this a racial / ethnic thing? Could be - the French have many more Muslims than the UK, but they're much less represented in the halls of power, and their cultural traditions are occasionally trampled on (from their point of view).
Is this a French thing? Again, could be - French society apparently does have an occasional collective"riot!" mentality, or more so than in the UK. And certainly the President, the Prime Minister and the Interior Minister haven't exactly covered themselves in glory recently.
Such poor reasoning there sorry I have to challenge that!
So Tony Blair and co have a bad fortnight do we all go out and trash someone elses property? NO!
Does there have to be personal gain to be a criminal. Absolutely not.Is this a bunch of crims jumping on the bandwagon? I don't think so - property is being destroyed, not stolen, so what's in it for them?
Does the person who smashes the head of another with a brick gain anything per se? NO!
Does the person who shouts racial abuse gain anything per se ? NO!
They are all criminals and law breakers gain or no gain.
DO NOT TRY JUSTIFY THEIR CRIMINALITY
I don't know about fluff, but there is too much fence sitting going on here.
Under Par, what do you think about all of this?!?
I don't know about fluff, but there is too much fence sitting going on here.
Under Par, what do you think about all of this?!?
Haven't got my head round it yet........let you know later
My first love was Darrell Dawes,
I thanked God for the lucky escape! He even asked me at one point if I ever thought of how my life would be now if we'd got married, in a very romantic way, and I could honestly say "yes, and I am thankful every day for the the fact I'm still single!"
to being single.
Absolute total rubbish they are still criminals whether one or a million do it. There is still a victim and they are committing crimes.
By your argument a person who kills someone is a murderer but if lots of people go out on the rampage and kill indisciminately say the IRA or UDA then its different.
Such poor reasoning there sorry I have to challenge that!
So Tony Blair and co have a bad fortnight do we all go out and trash someone elses property? NO!
Does there have to be personal gain to be a criminal. Absolutely not.
Does the person who smashes the head of another with a brick gain anything per se? NO!
Does the person who shouts racial abuse gain anything per se ? NO!
They are all criminals and law breakers gain or no gain.
DO NOT TRY JUSTIFY THEIR CRIMINALITY
Ab-so-
Without getting all softy-lefty, I think there's a bit more to it than that.
Riots are an extreme form of demonstration; they express the opinion of a significant minority of people. In a twisted sense, they're opinion polls, showing that a lot of people are unhappy with something.
Exactly. It is different - IRA murderers get (and have gotten) different treatment to "normal" murderers, even before the start of the peace process. Again, these are extreme expressions of opinion, but the IRA would never have survived if they didn't have some measure of support from a significant minority of the NI community.
It doesn't make the wanton destruction nicer, or forgivable - but it means that there is an underlying problem, which isn't solvable by normal policing methods. Extra-normal policing methods (internment, tear gas, rubber bullets etc.) can of course suppress the symptoms to a degree - but they can also aggravate the underlying problem. If you disagree, ask anyone living in Northern Ireland if they think internment helped or hindered the IRA.
No - I merely advanced this as a possibility, given the supposed greater tolerance of French people - or the greater propensity of them - to take to the streets.
I don't know why it's happening - but I think it's important to treat the problem, and not just the symptoms.
I'm not, I'm trying to understand why it's happening - it's clearly abnormal behaviour, and the police probably won't help solve the problem.They are all criminals and law breakers gain or no gain.
DO NOT TRY JUSTIFY THEIR CRIMINALITY
Like it or not, there's a reason for this, and if the authorities don't deal with it, or try to simply suppress the symptoms without solving a problem, it could get worse.
Stewart, is this unfluffy enough for you?
There is a difference between "justification" and "explanation". The behaviour isn't justifiable. But IMO, the Guardian's leader today supplies plausible reasoning as to why it's happening.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/sto...636729,00.html
Well APPEARS the Police are being too fluffy in this situation
Send in the Army I ASSUME they would be less fluffy with curfews and tanks etc
What i dont get is how they can allow 300 odd people to gather ??
What about Iran? Is that not a Muslim segregated large autonomy type state? Maybe they should all move out of France and go there?
Heather,
xx
What about Iran? Is that not a Muslim segregated large autonomy type state? Maybe they should all move out of France and go there?
Heather,
xx
It’s an idea that has been put forward and is wanted my may Muslims that live in France
I don’t know enough about the practicalities ,only time will tell in the long run ie in the next 100yrs if segregation works or integration, the dynamics of world migration are changing
Amazingly enough, the French authorities are very much more relaxed about civil disobedience than in the UK - makes sense when you think of the stuff they let farmers get away with in their demonstrations, blockades, you name it. It's a different culture.
FWIW, the French are being quite draconian by their standards - actually arresting so 800 people, including 400 children. And no, it's not helping much, big surprise there...
You LEFTY you.
Actually, good article - very informative, albeit from a Grauniad point-of-view...
The Economist, not exactly a lefty-haven, has an article here - more background, basically, and possibly some explanations.
Is what you are saying that Muslims want to turn a part of France into a seperate Muslim state? If France is so bad, why not move to one of the many already Muslim states which already exist? Or is that too logical?
(Probably because they'd all be clapped in irons and executed for their behaviour!!!!)
Heather,
xx
Exactly!! any more than 5 people together then a shoot to kill policy should be used to disperse the crowd into smaller groups of 4 or less.
Try and riot when you are not part of a big crowd bet they won't have the b@lls for it then.
U.P.(slightly right of Attilla the Hun.)
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