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Thread: Black isn't coloured

  1. #41
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    Its the attitudes that some people have that is the real problem, and the vocabulary that has come to represent those attitudes. Someone can be perfectly PC, use all the right terms, but still have racist attitudes.
    OK ... time to get flamed again .....

    I find all this talk about racisim in the UK hysterical. YES ... we do have an issue .. and yes the scum like the NF and other infrained attitudes still prevade BUT .... I have found some 'ethinic' majorities to be FAR MORE racist. Want to see racisim ... listen to the opinions of some West Indians about the Asian business in Jamaica ... listen to an Indian express his views on his Pakistani neighbours v.... yet in the UK we have to change our language and customs to take account of the feelings of immigrants????

    I get sick of PC middle-class bleeding heart liberals who have NO IDEA what race relations are, the real challenges that there are, nor what is actualy happening out on the street. Sorry, but just read that Christmas is now being banned because of Muslim feelings ... Who the h*ll is the minority in the UK now?

  2. #42
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Sorry, but just read that Christmas is now being banned because of Muslim feelings ... Who the h*ll is the minority in the UK now?

  3. #43
    Registered User dee's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus

    I get sick of PC middle-class bleeding heart liberals who have NO IDEA what race relations are, the real challenges that there are, nor what is actualy happening out on the street. Sorry, but just read that Christmas is now being banned because of Muslim feelings ... Who the h*ll is the minority in the UK now?
    Also makes me cross that at my daughters school they can no longer have the old christmas traditional nativity scene as no one is sure if jesus was black or white, plus they can no longer sing "Baa Baa Black sheep" as that too is racist. What is this world coming too

  4. #44
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    OK ... time to get flamed again .....

    BUT .... I have found some 'ethinic' majorities to be FAR MORE racist. Want to see racisim ..:
    In the london borough of newham where white brits are an ethnic minority according to the 2001 census. If a muslim and a siehk romance people will be killed to avenge the dishonour brought on the families. There have been three Honour Killings in the three years I've been driving an ambulance in the area.

    Oh and we have a Beauty parlour that is for "WOMEN OF COLOUR ONLY"

  5. #45
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Sorry, but just read that Christmas is now being banned because of Muslim feelings ... Who the h*ll is the minority in the UK now?
    Actually, you're wrong, Gus.

    It's being banned mostly because of ****wit white caucasians whose view of what Muslims and other non-Christians think is as related to reality as something very unrelated to reality indeed, who have some bizarre fantasy about what constitutes racial harmony.

    Ordinary Muslims and Jews, as far as I've heard them express their opinions, tend to be as understanding and respectful of the indigenous traditions as the rest of us think they ought to be.
    Last edited by ChrisA; 2nd-November-2005 at 11:50 PM.

  6. #46
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    Real Muslims and Jews tend to be as understanding and respectful of the indigenous traditions as the rest of us think they ought to be.
    Define 'real'. And out of interest, how many 'religious' Jews and Muslims do you know? Here's an idea for a wake up call ... chat to some teachers from 'white-minority' areas and find out just how accomodating the views of some of our brethern are.

  7. #47
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Define 'real'. And out of interest, how many 'religious' Jews and Muslims do you know? Here's an idea for a wake up call ... chat to some teachers from 'white-minority' areas and find out just how accomodating the views of some of our brethern are.
    Yeah well, I've edited to reflect my limited experience.

    But you think the Council "operatives" coming up with these ludicrous "policies" reflect the opinions of ordinary people?

    The extremists from any religion would always have you think they represent the norm, but they don't.

  8. #48
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    how many 'religious' Jews and Muslims do you know?
    "Religious"?

    Or "Extremist"? Some might say "Fundamentalist" or even "Fascist".

    It's an important difference.

    I have no time for any organised religion. But I've learned enough in my travels not to equate genuine, sincere, religious people, with the lunatics that get the headlines.

  9. #49
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisA
    The extremists from any religion would always have you think they represent the norm, but they don't.
    Absolutely. Good point well made!

  10. #50
    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Sorry, but just read that Christmas is now being banned because of Muslim feelings ... Who the h*ll is the minority in the UK now?
    The stupid thing is that it's probably not Muslims who decided that.

    I think this is just political correctness gone mad. Mutual respect would be far better, and that includes respect for religious/cultural traditions like Christmas. I respect the right of people of other religions to celebrate their own festivals, and even to do so publicly. I would expect that same courtesy in return. I even respect people's right to have no religion, but again, I expect the same courtesy in return. As a practising Christian, I would see banning Christmas celebrations as discrimination against my religion, and as a Welshman, I would see it as discrimination against my culture. Thankfully, however, it hasn't happened here yet.

  11. #51
    Papa Smurf
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerR
    Oh and we have a Beauty parlour that is for "WOMEN OF COLOUR ONLY"
    Seriously ? I wonder what would happen if a Beauty Parlour in another street had a "Whites Only" sign

    Quote Originally Posted by baruch
    Mutual respect would be far better
    Absolutely - wouldnt it be nice if we had one society and not a mish-mash of different cultural and religious socities...etc.. in some places segragation is ridiculous. "Them and Us" is something that belongs in the last century. Its not as simple as "white vs asian" or "christian vs muslim" heres a news story about what some muslims are like with hindus. The less a group of people mix with other groups the less likely they are to have their more bigoted opinions watered down.

    The new Racial and Religious Hated Bill is quite risky as it highlights a difference - surely it is already illegal to threaten a group of people ? Once you have a law like this is it then easier for a group to claim that a particular book e.g. the Satanic Verses, was an incitement ?

    no time to make this make sense - back tomorrow

  12. #52
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    OK ... time to get flamed again .....

    I find all this talk about racisim in the UK hysterical. YES ... we do have an issue .. and yes the scum like the NF and other infrained attitudes still prevade BUT .... I have found some 'ethinic' majorities to be FAR MORE racist. Want to see racisim ... listen to the opinions of some West Indians about the Asian business in Jamaica ... listen to an Indian express his views on his Pakistani neighbours v.... yet in the UK we have to change our language and customs to take account of the feelings of immigrants????

    I get sick of PC middle-class bleeding heart liberals who have NO IDEA what race relations are, the real challenges that there are, nor what is actualy happening out on the street. Sorry, but just read that Christmas is now being banned because of Muslim feelings ... Who the h*ll is the minority in the UK now?

    We just calling them winter lights not christmas lights

  13. #53
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Golly! haven't read this thread just the last bit. I'd like to make a request - please don't believe anything that the Dail Mail or Express print.

    "Banks ban Piggy Banks"
    "Council bans cuddly pigs"
    "Inland Revenue Officiers not allowed to collect for Christian Charities"
    "Now they're banning Christ" (as in no longer using BC / AD)

    I'm sorry but I just don't have any faith in such stories - especially when they appear day after day as part of an "Express Crusade" they're just pandering to people's fears to boost circulation.

    Let's get this straight - Muslims do not want Christians to not celebrate Christmas. What evidence do i have - well you can start with the Muslim faith which acknowledges Jesus as a Prophet & then of course you can see what happens in Bethlehem on December 24 when Palestinian leaders will attend Mass.

    If some jumped up nutter in a middle management position at a council or charity says something daft, it will end up in the right wing press but does anyone really believe that people of other faiths have nothing better to do than fret over christmas lights? Of course not.

    Storms in teacups (along with straight bananas & banning of sausages) designed to pander to xenophobic little englanders

  14. #54
    Registered User Msfab's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    Let's get this straight - Muslims do not want Christians to not celebrate Christmas. What evidence do i have - well you can start with the Muslim faith which acknowledges Jesus as a Prophet & then of course you can see what happens in Bethlehem on December 24 when Palestinian leaders will attend Mass.
    There are days of celebration in and around Bethlehem for the Christmas. There seems to be the idea that all Palestinian and arabs are muslim and therefore anti Christian. Palestinian leader/officials are only allowed to attend mass if they have been given permission by the israeli army, and one year it was nearly all cancelled!!!

    (I'm a Pround Palestinian)

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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    Golly! haven't read this thread just the last bit. I'd like to make a request - please don't believe anything that the Dail Mail or Express print.

    "Banks ban Piggy Banks"
    "Council bans cuddly pigs"
    "Inland Revenue Officiers not allowed to collect for Christian Charities"
    "Now they're banning Christ" (as in no longer using BC / AD)


    In todays Daily Mail we have

    pg 5.. children of 5 to be taught about gay life styles

    pg 8.. warning to rioters as Paris burns (note its all of Paris that is burning)

    p13 ..Ofsted's offices get wall paper at £1,100 a roll while my school is left crumbling

    pg 34 Thugs laugh at asbo their 'honour badge'

    pg 35... War hero aged 84 told : Prove you belong to this country

    ok ill find another paper

  16. #56
    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    Let's get this straight - Muslims do not want Christians to not celebrate Christmas.
    True. The problem is that there are too many "politically correct" white British people in public office or influential position who think Muslims probably, maybe, might be offended by public celebrations of a broadly Christian nature.

    What we have, then, isn't a clash of faiths. It's just political correctness gone loopy.

  17. #57
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Baruch
    What we have, then, isn't a clash of faiths. It's just political correctness gone loopy.


    And its not conducive to harmonious relationships. It only stirs up resentment and bad feeling. It is the opposite of mutal respect and tolerance of one another's different cultures, which is the only real way forward.

  18. #58
    Registered User Baruch's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    It is the opposite of mutal respect and tolerance of one another's different cultures, which is the only real way forward.
    You said it.

    It seems that the politically correct definition of religious tolerance is: "Respect for and celebration of all religions.... oh, except Christianity."

  19. #59
    Lovely Moderator ducasi's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Perhaps the thinking goes something like this...

    Council bod 1: "Hey, it's Christmas, we've got to put up our Christmas lights!!! "
    Council bod 2: "Hang on, haven't we forgotten to celebrate all the other religious festivals of all the other religions we are supposed to respect and treat equally?? "
    1: "Sh*t, you're right! "
    2: "I know... What if we do the normal Christmas lights, but we call them holiday lights??? "
    1: "I think you've got it, and who's going to complain!? "
    2: "Sorted. Fancy a pint then? "

    Never put down to malice that which can be better explained by stupidity.
    Let your mind go and your body will follow. – Steve Martin, LA Story

  20. #60
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Black isn't coloured

    Quote Originally Posted by ducasi
    Perhaps the thinking goes something like this...

    {snip conversation}
    That's so believable.

    Although this "There's no Christmas, it's just a 'holiday', OK?" thing is common in the US, isn't it? - maybe that's where it came from...

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