Open Jive Championships 2003 - Blackpool

[Dancing Veela]

Originally posted by TheTramp
What?? Another one? At this rate, you won't have time for your cabaret, as you'll be spending the entire day licking me!!

Steve

I do have a huge NEED for salt Steve - you can keep me topped up so that I don't run out of energy for the cabaret

[Gus]

Originally posted by DavidB
There is a difference. I would expect a choreographer to be more experienced in musical interpretation, and at looking at the routine as a whole. He would also tend to work with what the dancers can do at the present.

Coaching would concentrate on individual moves, techniques and ideas, and trying to improve the standard of the dancers.

David

Ummm ... don't think I was clear in the point I was trying to make ... I was trying to follow on from Tramps comment where I think he was intimating that having professional or 3rd party choreographers was a BAD thing. I was putting forward the view that 3rd parrty involvement is already there for the freestyle section so why not for the Cabaret section?

[Emma]

I'm finally finally going to bite and post to one of these competition-related threads...

It seems to me that a team cabaret will always be coreographed, whether by an individual or by several members of a team. It seems entirely acceptable that an individual who is not a member of the dancing team should coreograph. They are a member of the team, just not one of the dancing members.

I think copying a routine from a video is plagarism. Even if you add your own 'style'. It's no different from singing someone else's song, but changing the tempo or the accompaniment slightly. The bulk of the performance is a re-hash of someone else's ideas.

Paying a coreographer to come up with a routine for a team strikes me as 'not quite cricket' in an amateur competition. I've just spent five minutes scanning the C2D website and I can't really establish/decide whether it's an amateur competition or a proffessional one. Certainly there are both amateurs and professionals entering from what I can gather. I entirely understand DV's dismay at learning that a team (or teams) is using a 'borrowed' routine from a professional (er..might be wrong there) coreographer. It seems to me to be entirely unfair to allow comparison in a competition between 'amateur' and 'professional' coreography...though I'm using the quote marks because I also recognise that the 'amateurs' might well be better than the 'professionals'!

Yes. Well. That's my two bits. I'll go back to waiting for my pizza now!

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Emma
... coreographed,...coreograph....coreographer

Most people drop the H's when they speak not when they type you must be a Yorkshire lass

[Emma]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
Most people drop the H's when they speak not when they type you must be a Yorkshire lass

Ummm..nope...

Hang on...

HEATHER???!!!

I think help is on it's way

edit:

..actually I just checked the spelling meself and, erm..it seems to be right, so.. unless copious pizza has gone to my brain (always a strong possibility)..erm..eh? wha?

another edit:

It wasn't right. I am a pillock. I blame pizza.

- obviously I will defer to Heather's higher authority.

[Heather]

.........that I'm not the only one who notices spelling mistakes!!!!
It's just as well that there is not a 'Spelling Competition', as very few Forum members would stand any chance of winning!!!!


Heather,

[Dreadful Scathe]

Originally posted by Emma

..actually I just checked the spelling meself and, erm..it seems to be right, so.. unless copious pizza has gone to my brain (always a strong possibility)..erm..eh? wha?

Hmm I assumed it had an H in it, double checked i was right so i wouldnt look like a fool and then posted. Choreography has an H in it as far as any dictionary i checked says anyway .

Sheesh now i feel like such a pedant, wish i hadn't bothered

[Emma]

Oh..hang on a minute..you meant that
h....now, why on earth didn't you say? *g*

Well, there goes all my primary school teacher credibility....ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[Emma]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe


Sheesh now i feel like such a pedant, wish i handt bothered

hee hee hee

Ah, well...that'll learn ya *manages not to mention punctuation and pots and kettles...nearly*

[Dreadful Scathe]

what!!? i was misquoted i spelt it correctly , look and see.

*waves hand...there is no edit button

[Emma]

*cough* capital i for 'I' babes *cough*

[Heather]

In my opinion, just because someone is a fantastic individual dancer, it does not necessarily make them the best or ideal participant in a Team/group event. When working as a team, there should not be any one person who 'stands out',a person with too much individual 'style' might find it difficult to 'blend' and become anonymous within a team.
I don't know all these wonderful dancers, so I can only use a musical analogy: Imagine Kiri te Kanawa, Placido Domingo, Bryn Terfel and Cecilia Bartoli, all outstanding, famous singers with very beautiful and individual voices, but no-one could seriously expect them to 'blend' into a choir as their voices are too distinctive. The very nature of choral singing is that the overall production of sound should seem as one voice.
I see a Team Cabaret event as the same sort of idea, everyone should blend together with no obvious individual dancers. Perhaps having a 'Dream Team ' of competitors is more of a handicap than an advantage?(Or maybe I'm just talking c**p????)

Heather,

[Dreadful Scathe]

my spelling is fine my spell chequer told me sew

anyway ill get you back - ill dance with you for 2 whole songs in blackpool

[Emma]

Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
ill dance with you for 2 whole songs in blackpool

Woo!! anyone else want to get me back?! That sounds like the perfect way!

[Nicky]

Originally posted by DavidB
I don't see anything wrong with doing a routine that someone else has choreographed, as long as the choreographer is credited with what he/she has done, and has been paid as agreed (if they are doing it professionally).

The entry form should require the choreographer to be named, and the performers should have to sign something saying that the choreographer has allowed the routine to be performed by them. At the prize presentation, the choreographer should accompany the couple/team when they receive their prizes.

David

Wow! I am flattered that my choreography is the subject of a debate 12,000 miles away!! Please let me know if it lives up to expectations and the dancers do my routine(s) justice! I'd love to be there on the night.....

I'm looking forward to coming over in May with my new dance partner and competing/showcasing a couple of new routines then and also conducting a series of classes and workshops.

Hope to meet some of you soon.......

Nicky Haslam
Ceroc & Modern Jive Dance Co, Australia

[TheTramp]

Hello Nicky....

Nice to see you on here. Hope it's more than just a fleeting visit.

Look forward to seeing you (maybe even for a dance) when you're over in May. As long as you don't mind dancing with a beginner....

Steve

[Franck]

Originally posted by Nicky
Wow! I am flattered that my choreography is the subject of a debate 12,000 miles away!! Please let me know if it lives up to expectations and the dancers do my routine(s) justice! I'd love to be there on the night.....

I'm looking forward to coming over in May with my new dance partner and competing/showcasing a couple of new routines then and also conducting a series of classes and workshops.

Hope to meet some of you soon.......

Hello Nicky and welcome to the Forum...
I am delighted to see you have joined the (lively) discussions here and I am sure your input will be appreciated.

Having read all the discussions above, I must say I am even more looking forward to the Ceroc Champs in May!

On the subject of plagiarism, then why not?
It does feel like cheating a bit, but as Gus said, people get their routines in many ways, including using videos of other dance events to get ideas...
Overall though, if you just take a video and dance a 'straight' copy of it, I can't help feeling that you'll get less satisfaction out of doing well, or even winning!
In fact I believe you get back what you put in, so for all the teams that are currently working very hard: 'It is all worth it!'

Good luck to all,

Franck.

[Gus]

Like it or not freestyle competitions are 'fought out' at two levels, amateur and profesional (with Ceroc putting in a professionl section this year). Is there now a case for similarly segregating the cabaret? I can imagine how potentialy disheartening it is for a local club to come up against a dream team and professional choreographer.

Should there be segregation .... does anyone care .... what is the real aim of the competition .. for people to enjoy doing it or for the public to see the best show?

[Dancing Veela]

Originally posted by Franck
It does feel like cheating a bit, but as Gus said, people get their routines in many ways, including using videos of other dance events to get ideas...
Overall though, if you just take a video and dance a 'straight' copy of it, I can't help feeling that you'll get less satisfaction out of doing well, or even winning!

Good luck to all,

Franck.

THanks Franck - I do agree that people use videos to get ideas - merging those ideas into a whole routine is still using your own personality and skills - dancing the same whole routine from the video is not!

What are the chances that Keith will read this an give us a reply?

DVx

[Will]

Nice little Exclusive!

Well if anyone is really keen to see the now infamous "Equador" before Blackpool so as to see what they are up against, I can reveal to you that 2 of the 3 couples will be performing the routine next Tuesday in the Kent House at Hammersmith.

Clayton, Janine, Amir, & Kate are going to put on the performance. The only couple missing will be Graham Le Clerc and Sarah. Then they are going to give anyone who wants the opportunity to freestyle under competition conditions infront of them so that they can offer feedback and advice.

Personally, my game plan to win is either to break my competitors legs, or furnish the judges with shed loads of Cash