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Thread: Who gives us our prejudices

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat
    Go for it, Stewart38, you have nothing to lose but your prejudices!
    Are we not what we are from not just what we read but our back ground (going back generations) where we live who we interact with etc

    If i have prejudices then society 'gave' me them but i like to think im open minded .

    I can certainly change my mind more then i thought

    Id never swim with dolphins again (didnt like idea their trapped)

    Id never visit a 'traditional school in Kenya again' (It was full of tourist throwing out sweets from the coach ,with the kids running after it)

    Id do more work in prisons

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    While we are shaped by society especially when growing up (very much so here, for example P & RCs go to different schools - surely a contributing factor in a less than integrated society?) - there is definitely an element of choice. We choose what to feed our minds on and what influences we allow in our adult lives. Our prejudices are therefore largely our own responsibility.

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    While we are shaped by society especially when growing up (very much so here, for example P & RCs go to different schools - surely a contributing factor in a less than integrated society?) - there is definitely an element of choice. We choose what to feed our minds on and what influences we allow in our adult lives. Our prejudices are therefore largely our own responsibility.
    I don't think schools have very much to do with it. Children can be the most prejudiced of anyone, despite they're taught, and the playground is one of the nastiest cultures you can find. I think the things you learn and experience in your late teens and twenties are more significant.

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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    We choose what to feed our minds on and what influences we allow in our adult lives.

    The mind that fed exclusively on newspapers like the Mail and the Express would be a pretty malnourished one, IMHO. Perhaps that's my form of prejudice.

    I was rather amused by the mental image of Stewart38 standing in the newsagent, vacillating over whether to buy a copy of the Independent, which is why I made the somewhat flippant remark.

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    Registered User LMC's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    You want flippant jivecat? - [ OBLIG ] I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody.

    I agree with ESG - children can be incredibly cruel. Also, I don't think you can blame the schools - parents/upbringing would play a huge role.

    But I also believe that you can shed prejudices at any time in your life if you are "informed" properly - IMO, prejudices are largely based on fear and/or ignorance.

    I believe that they are also unavoidable to some extent - one of my best friends has a very unusual background - if I'd known before we got talking (instead of within half an hour of meeting her), then we may not have become such good friends - because with the best will in the world, prior knowledge would have given me a certain perception of her, which would not have made me decide to "hate" her or avoid her, but might have put up barriers to finding common ground. That prejudice was purely down to lack of knowledge - I would have been too concerned about putting my size 8's in and hurting her feelings if I'd known her history before we were introduced. But it's still prejudice.

    My current thoughts are that whilst prejudices might be inevitable, there is absolutely NO excuse for not being prepared to remove them - and they should lessen as people get older - as Lynn said, we choose what to feed our minds, I try to keep mine as open as possible and some of the new experiences I've had over the last 3 or 4 years have been so enriching (as well as removing prejudices!) that I'm eager for more.

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    I don't think schools have very much to do with it. Children can be the most prejudiced of anyone, despite they're taught, and the playground is one of the nastiest cultures you can find. I think the things you learn and experience in your late teens and twenties are more significant.
    My point about schools was purely in the context of the fact that in NI Protestant and Catholic schooling is completely seperated and the contribution that can made to prejudices in society here (you did read my post?). For some people the first time they knowingly speak to someone from 'the other side' is their first workplace or university, at 16 or 18. I'm sure this has some contribution to the 'dehumanising' that is part of the violence. (Many in the paramilitaries were recruited by the age of 16.)

    And while parents and the community in which these children are brought up of course are contributory factors, there are very few choices for most parents in terms of integrated schooling.

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    My point about schools was purely in the context of the fact that in NI Protestant and Catholic schooling is completely seperated and the contribution that can made to prejudices in society here (you did read my post?). For some people the first time they knowingly speak to someone from 'the other side' is their first workplace or university, at 16 or 18. I'm sure this has some contribution to the 'dehumanising' that is part of the violence. (Many in the paramilitaries were recruited by the age of 16.)

    And while parents and the community in which these children are brought up of course are contributory factors, there are very few choices for most parents in terms of integrated schooling.
    I did very much read your post. I don't agree with you that segregated schools contribute to adult prejudice; at least, I don't think it's 'obvious'. Not withstanding the recruitment age of some paramilitaries I think childhood prejudices are shed and adult ones acquired later.

    It would be interesting to know if there's any sensible research in this area.

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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    I did very much read your post. I don't agree with you that segregated schools contribute to adult prejudice; at least, I don't think it's 'obvious'. Not withstanding the recruitment age of some paramilitaries I think childhood prejudices are shed and adult ones acquired later.

    It would be interesting to know if there's any sensible research in this area.
    Is it possible that your own experiences are prejudicing your argument here?

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by mooncalf
    Is it possible that your own experiences are prejudicing your argument here?
    I'd say it was a dead certainty!

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    I did very much read your post. I don't agree with you that segregated schools contribute to adult prejudice; at least, I don't think it's 'obvious'. Not withstanding the recruitment age of some paramilitaries I think childhood prejudices are shed and adult ones acquired later.

    It would be interesting to know if there's any sensible research in this area.
    Surely this depends on the setting and what you 'get' from outside influences

    If you where white and born in South Africa in 1940 by 1960 you would be a sum of what you have been /taught learnt. You wont shed prejudices of what you have been bought up on with unless your given the 'opportunity' to do so


    Do we live in an enlighted age ?

    Some people would think eating dogs is wrong some people in other parts world would see it as 'normal'

    The 'moral' argument of not eating dog is based on believes you have acquired

    who is 'right'

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    I don't agree with you that segregated schools contribute to adult prejudice; at least, I don't think it's 'obvious'.
    While I absolutely agree that adult prejudice is a matter of adult responsibility, I don't feel it is right to rule out the role of segregated schooling along with segregated community life as an influencing factor on a young person growing up in NI. It is certainly problematic for parents in 'mixed' marriages to know which school to send their children to.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    It would be interesting to know if there's any sensible research in this area.
    I'm sure there has been. I sort of know someone involved in promoting integrated schooling (I can't remember the exact name of the body), next time I see him I will ask him.

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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    I'd say it was a dead certainty!
    ..and how does that make you feel?

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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Surely this depends on the setting and what you 'get' from outside influences

    If you where white and born in South Africa in 1940 by 1960 you would be a sum of what you have been /taught learnt. You wont shed prejudices of what you have been bought up on with unless your given the 'opportunity' to do so


    Do we live in an enlighted age ?

    Some people would think eating dogs is wrong some people in other parts world would see it as 'normal'

    The 'moral' argument of not eating dog is based on believes you have acquired who is 'right'
    Not necessarily. Some people simply cannot fit a dog in their oven.

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38
    Surely this depends on the setting and what you 'get' from outside influences

    If you where white and born in South Africa in 1940 by 1960 you would be a sum of what you have been /taught learnt. You wont shed prejudices of what you have been bought up on with unless your given the 'opportunity' to do so
    I think one needs to credit people with the ability to ignore their 'upbringing' and make up their own minds. Many people in South Africa were able to look past the apartheid attitudes of those around them and decide for themselves that there was another way. And to say that no one can shed prejudice unless they are given an opportunity invites those people to deny responsibility for their own attitudes, simply because they weren't given "the right opportunties".
    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38

    Do we live in an enlighted age ?

    Some people would think eating dogs is wrong some people in other parts world would see it as 'normal'

    The 'moral' argument of not eating dog is based on believes you have acquired

    who is 'right'
    I had a dream about eating deep-fried dog off the bone the other night. The dog was still breathing, too. It was quite disturbing.

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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Most prejudices come form two sources: Looking different or Acting different. Once you accept that everyone is different, and entitled to be, then the prejudices sort of fall away.

    In saying that; prejudices, or preconceptions, have to be made in order for society to function properly: you have to assume that everyone is neutral, and the information you get about them has to taint that view:
    - If you learned that someone had a criminal record,
    - ...they had been married before,
    - ...they can play a musical instrument,
    - ...they went to university,
    - ...they have been in hospital for a long time,
    - ...they don't like dancing,
    - ...
    Our prejudices are guained from every contact we have with a similar type of person - even if that 'contact' is through a third party. Think on names as a prime example - when naming a child, you sift through hundreds of names and say "no, I don't like 'Aaron' - knew someone once with that name: was a plonker."

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    I'm sure there has been. I sort of know someone involved in promoting integrated schooling (I can't remember the exact name of the body), next time I see him I will ask him.
    That would be interesting. But to avoid prejudicing the outcome, you also need to ask someone who is involved in promoting segregated schooling too...

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    I did very much read your post. I don't agree with you that segregated schools contribute to adult prejudice; at least, I don't think it's 'obvious'.
    In NI, it's very clear that this segregation does perpetuate prejudice, just go there (it's a lovely place) and see.

    Now admittedly, I don't know to what extent separate education impacts prejudices, compared to the segregated-homes, segregated-social, segregated-political and segregated-religions (duh) aspects of life there. But it must have some impact.

    Yes, children can be nasty little bullying terrors without any excuse, but they'll also tend to take any excuse grown-ups provide and use that as justification for their nastiness.

    The extent of segragation in some parts of Northern Ireland is much greater (I believe) than you'd imagine - but because both sides look the same (both white) to a casual observer, it's not immediately obvious unless you live there.

    But, it's still a lovely place.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    you also need to ask someone who is involved in promoting segregated schooling too...
    That's pretty much everyone else...

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    In NI, it's very clear that this segregation does perpetuate prejudice, just go there (it's a lovely place) and see.

    Now admittedly, I don't know to what extent separate education impacts prejudices, compared to the segregated-homes, segregated-social, segregated-political and segregated-religions (duh) aspects of life there. But it must have some impact.
    It must? How on earth would you tell, given all the other influences?

    On the subject of prejudices, they aren't all obviously bad, either. If you're a small furry pointy-eared creature then a prejudice that makes you stay out of the way of larger slavering creatures with sharp teeth is probably a good thing (a prejudice that was superbly parodied by the sharks Bruce and friends in Finding Nemo, if anyone remembers.)

    If you're alone and walking down a dark street in a rough neighbourhood is it unacceptable prejudice to cross the road to avoid a group of men wearing hoodies? What about when the Police focus attention on Asian men when looking for suicide bombers?

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    It must? How on earth would you tell, given all the other influences?
    If a kid comes back from school and says "Mummy, Proddies / Feynians are evil aren't they?", that's a bit of an indication. If the parent replies "Yes they are, well done little Jimmy", that's another. I wish I were making this up.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    (a prejudice that was superbly parodied by the sharks Bruce and friends in Finding Nemo, if anyone remembers.)
    "Fish are friends, not food"

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    If you're alone and walking down a dark street in a rough neighbourhood is it unacceptable prejudice to cross the road to avoid a group of men wearing hoodies?
    No. But it may also be dumb - showing fear, drawing the attention of the mob etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    What about when the Police focus attention on Asian men when looking for suicide bombers?
    That's prejudice, sure - but that's reasoned prejudice based on the fact that all suicide bombers so far have had a common ethnic background, and that the police can't stop & search everyone, so they have to focus efforts, in this distinct case. The danger would be if some members of the police ignored everyone else, or if they applied this focus for other means, or insensitively.

    Hah. What am I saying, "if"? Let me rephrase that:
    "The danger will be when some members of the police ignore everyone else, or when they apply this focus for other means and insensitively. "

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Who gives us our prejudices

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    If a kid comes back from school and says "Mummy, Proddies / Feynians are evil aren't they?", that's a bit of an indication. If the parent replies "Yes they are, well done little Jimmy", that's another. I wish I were making this up.
    Resisting the temptation to over-analyse what you wrote, there's nothing there to suggest that mixed schooling would make much difference. Those "evil Fenians" might just as well be at the next desk; proximity won't make them seem less "evil" to a six year old.

    I think the topic of people's prejudices is far far more complicated than simply what they learn or experience as a child. Based on a kid I knew at school at the age of five, I used to think all Italians were smelly. I didn't need to be given "opportunities" or re-educated by meeting Italians in a nationality-neutral and non-threatening mediation session to see by the age of seven that I was just being dumb.

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