GP - how long do you have to wait for an appointment?

[Little Monkey]

Ok, so this is a bit of a rant. Bear with me....

My GP's surgery has changed their system of how to make appointments. Before you could just go in/ phone and make an appointment, and would get the next available one. Sometimes this could be the same day (if you phoned early in the morning), sometimes it could take a couple of days. If you didn't insist on seeing 'your' GP, there was always one GP you could get an appointment with on the day!

Now you have to phone the surgery between 8am and 9am on the day you want an appointment, it is no longer possible to phone in the aftersnoon/ nip in in your lunch-break to make an appointment for the next day/ next week.

Result - You get up at 8am and start phoning. 99% of the time the line is of course engaged, as hundreds of other people are trying to phone in the same hour. It's a bit of a lottery if you get through or not. Today it took me about 10 minutes to get through the first time, and I got a recorded message, saying 'you're through to the surgery. If you wish to make an appointment, press 1..... etc etc etc' So I pressed 1, and got another voice that said - the nurse is answering another call. Please try again later. Then you're back to square one, and having to keep phoning, until you maybe get through to a real person..... I think I got the recorded message about 12 times this morning, including three that said 'the surgery is now closed'!!!

At about 8.50, I finally got through to a 'real' person. By then I was so frustrated and p***ed off that I burst out 'My god, am I actually through! That only took 50 minutes, wow!' The nurse was not impressed with my outburst...... Of course by this time, 'my' GP was fully booked, so I just had to get an appointment with a doctor I've never seen before, who doesn't know anything about me....... But as this is the third day I've tried to get an appointment, and the first day I was actually successful , I accepted it.

This new system is supposed to be more efficient, and get rid of waiting lists. Well, of course it's got rid of waiting lists - you can only book an appointment on the day, so you're either lucky enough to get one, or you just have to try your luck again another day! I much preferred the other system; even if you had to wait a couple of days to see your GP, at least you knew you had an appointment, and didn't have to waste morning after morning on the phone playing the 'GP appointment lottery'

So - how long do you have to wait for an appointment to see your GP. Do you just have to accept any GP, or do you always get to see 'your own'. Can you make appointments any time, or do you have one hour in the morning when you frantically dial and re-dial the number to get through?

Just curious.....

Frustrated Little Monkey

[Heather]

I can understand your frustration!!
Can't say I've tried my surgery lately so I can't comment but whilst reading this I did think about a story that was on the Grampian news last night.
A young teenage girl became ill at night and her father tried unsuccessfully to get an 'out of hours' doctor to come out to her. Eventually, several hours later she was eventually admitted to hospital, where her father was told they were too late, the girl died one hour after being admitted to hospital, she had meningitis. ( There are more disturbing details to this story, which is now the subject of an investigation).
None of this inspires much faith in the National Health service under Labour or any other party!!


Heather,
xx

[Mostlysane]

Lots of the surgery's are doing it now. So they meet the governments targets on everyone being able to get an appointment within 48 hours. A lot of GP's will only let you make appointments within 48 hours, you can't book anything further in the future. It's so the PCT's can meet their government targets.

Blair was put on the spot about it on Question Time a few weeks ago and promised to "investigate" because he "didn't know".

[LMC]

Our GP surgery has the same system "phone between 8 and 9" system. I think many NHS trusts have switched to this method.

LM, that is an impressive rant

The only additional whine I can think of is for the not insignificant number of people who work some distance from home (and therefore their doctor's surgery). If I want to see my GP, I have to tell my boss I'm going to be in late and just hope that I can get an appointment the same day. Which could be at any time that day - and if late morning/early afternoon, will entail taking the *entire* rest of the day out of the office (not worth travelling). For a 10 minute appointment. It's b****y annoying.

I can't believe that they get so many "no shows" (the feeble excuse that my surgery put forth for changing to this system) that it would be impossible to make any appointments - there is usually more than one doctor in a surgery, how about allocating one GP per day for "pre-booked" appointments for people who need to PLAN, and running the early morning system for the other GPs in the practice, for people who do need to see a GP the same day? The GPs could take it in turns to do the 'future booking' duty, which means that people who want to see a particular doctor can pick that day for their appointment.

EDIT: Mostlysane - even 48 hours would be an improvement on the stupid "same-day" system that LM is talking about - at least you can book the day before and be able to give your workplace *some* notice

[Purple Sparkler]

I feel I must point out that the GPs are just as annoyed about the stupid new system as the patients. My Mum, as I've said before, is a GP, and the hoops the government make her jump through...

[El Salsero Gringo]

I feel I must point out that the GPs are just as annoyed about the stupid new system as the patients. My Mum, as I've said before, is a GP, and the hoops the government make her jump through...

I don't think the Government is making anyone jump through this hoop. My understanding is that there is a Government target that no one should wait longer than three days to see their GP - in other words, every appointment should be made within 3 days. How surgeries meet this target - i.e. by choosing no longer to make advance appointments - is up to them.

[Martin]

I don't think the Government is making anyone jump through this hoop. My understanding is that there is a Government target that no one should wait longer than three days to see their GP - in other words, every appointment should be made within 3 days. How surgeries meet this target - i.e. by choosing no longer to make advance appointments - is up to them.

Any target can be met, if you manipulate.

It depends if you care about targets or people.

I went to my dentist today for an appointment at 2:30 (he is chinese, so it always has to be 2:30 - my little joke)
The receptionist asked me to take a seat and then left the room, 15 minutes later - nothing - no receptionist, no word on how long to wait, so I left.

Got a phone call 1 hour later, she came to check and I was not there [big supprise!!!!]

It is a service, I pay for it, either directly or through the government taxes.. Would you wait 1 hour for a meal in a cafe, when the waiters disapear???

[Rhythm King]

My health centre has 5 GPs and 2 Practice Nurses on its books. One of the Drs is on long term sick and one simply doesn't speak proper English, by which I mean it is not possible to explain complex problems to him, with any confidence of his having understood anything after "Good Morning Dr".
In addition to the normal male hypochondriac condition, I have spinal injuries and am chronically ill, so I'm fairly well known to the place
One can normally see a Dr, within about 3 days, sometimes sooner. To see "my" Dr has sometimes taken 3 weeks! The Practice Nurse appointments are like Hen's teeth and a week to 10 days is good going. Waiting for specialist referrals can up to 6 months, but once you have been seen and are in the system, the care is very good.
Don't even think about getting me started on NHS dentistry

[Chicklet]

Slightly off topic, but related, honestly.

I would like to see an extra layer of private GPs added to the system where people who can afford it can pay say £50 - £100 for a private GP 15 min appointment (phoning ANY TIME for the next available appointment obviously).
A doctor working at the bottom end and therefore pulling in £200 / hr, say 35 hrs a week working 46 weeks a year could make a gross >£300k - surely there are GPs out there for whom this is an attractive proposition??

This would keep people like me who are relatively cash rich and time poor out of the "free" system thereby making more time available for those that can't afford it and letting me get in and out with speed.

Am I alone in thinking this would help the whole GP process?

As far as I know this option is not available in Scotland, does anyone know differently?

Anyone else fancy this system?

[El Salsero Gringo]

Slightly off topic, but related, honestly.

I would like to see an extra layer of private GPs added to the system where people who can afford it can pay say £50 - £100 for a private GP 15 min appointment (phoning ANY TIME for the next available appointment obviously).
A doctor working at the bottom end and therefore pulling in £200 / hr, say 35 hrs a week working 46 weeks a year could make a gross >£300k - surely there are GPs out there for whom this is an attractive proposition??

This would keep people like me who are relatively cash rich and time poor out of the "free" system thereby making more time available for those that can't afford it and letting me get in and out with speed.

Am I alone in thinking this would help the whole GP process?

As far as I know this option is not available in Scotland, does anyone know differently?

Anyone else fancy this system?

Firstly, £300k isn't as much as it sounds since it needs to cover the entire costs of the surgery. That includes rent, clerical staff, and other costs.

Secondly, if it were attractive financially speaking, you're either going to suck all the decent GP's out of the NHS system or you're going to have to tell us where all these extra GP's are going to come from.

Thirdly - if you want to see a private GP - there are already plenty to choose from, all over the country.

[Tessalicious]

...rant...
Frustrated Little Monkey

I can totally understand your frustration - last time I wanted to book an appointment at my doctor I had to wait 6 days. Fortunately, because it's a university practice, they have brought in twice-daily two hour walk-in sessions, where you can just turn up and see a doctor or nurse, if you're prepared to wait for ages in a room full of students with Fresher's 'Flu.

This is a pretty good system for dealing with emergencies, as long as people don't abuse it by turning up without an appointment and then spending half an hour detailing a huge list of chronic ailments. It is also helpful because it reduces the number of people who book appointments at the first sign of a cold, just in case it gets worse, since they know they can come in without appointment if they need to - therefore, in theory at least, reducing appointment waiting time.

Unfortunately, that system wouldn't work everywhere, because most working people don't have an hour to sit in a waiting room without a definite appointment - but if more surgeries offered something similar, maybe you wouldn't have the problem you had.

[drathzel]

I normally get an appointment pretty quickly! My annoyance with my Surgery was however that you could not book an appointment more than 1 1/2 weeks ahead! Well that sucked because i had to go to regular 4 weekly appointments, pretty much to the day! I found it really hard until i complained to my Gp (who by the way is lovely and really looks after me) who then made a point to speak to the reception staff and i was able to make my appointments!

[Chicklet]

Firstly, £300k isn't as much as it sounds since it needs to cover the entire costs of the surgery. That includes rent, clerical staff, and other costs.

Secondly, if it were attractive financially speaking, you're either going to suck all the decent GP's out of the NHS system or you're going to have to tell us where all these extra GP's are going to come from.

Thirdly - if you want to see a private GP - there are already plenty to choose from, all over the country.

Oh, ESG no likey that idea!!
I ppologise and have rapped my knuckles for posting sans proper up to date research - last time I looked (about 3 years ago) there were Private GPs available in Edinburgh at £150 / appointment but none (obviously advertising on the web) in Glasgow and I based the above on thinking that was a bit steep so where was the "middle ground". A quick check and a phone call (because I am seriously interested) tells me there is now at least one place in Glasgow with whom one can register and attend for £60 / 15 mins. Exactly what I was thinking of. Appointments can be made any time and will usually be available same week, repeat prescriptions can be taken over the phone and posted out...no handing in requests between 2 and 2.15 on Wednesdays.

So my numbers weren't terribly far out.....£3-400k Gross obviously IS an attractive proposition....southern friends would do well to remember that we don't suffer from quite such harsh property prices, even with heating bills, in the frozen North! VERY widely speaking, Medical Receptionist £25k tops, 1000 sq foot premises MAX £50k, and another £25k for computer system, utilities, stationary...etc. Leaves a very comfortable income, IMHO.

Thanks for making me go check!

OH and quite possibly some of the extra GPs are going to come fromTurkey one of these days

[El Salsero Gringo]

{good stuff}

The disadvantage of private GPs (if I'm not mistaken) is that they can't refer you back in to the NHS for treatment, if you need to see a specialist you have to go private. Is that a cast iron rule, does anyone know?

[Chicklet]

The disadvantage of private GPs (if I'm not mistaken) is that they can't refer you back in to the NHS for treatment, if you need to see a specialist you have to go private. Is that a cast iron rule, does anyone know?

good question, and one to which I do not know the answer, and will be interested to hear.
But (borrowing ODA hat for a mo) - won't most people who can afford the £60 also be able to afford the £500 / year for a health insurance policy?

[Little Monkey]

good question, and one to which I do not know the answer, and will be interested to hear.
But (borrowing ODA hat for a mo) - won't most people who can afford the £60 also be able to afford the £500 / year for a health insurance policy?

Well, unlike you I'm poor on cash but rich on time........ So private healthcare is a complete no-no in my case...

I took me 5 months from I contacted my GP until I got my first appointment at the neurosurgery department at the hospital. Then I waited another month (I was pleasantly surprised it wasn't any longer!!) for my MRI scan. Now I'm waiting for my next neuro appointment for further tests for my back. At least I got the scan results from my GP today - one slipped disc trapping the sciatic nerve, and two degenerated discs adding to the fun, as well as early signs of arthritis!!!

Hopefully it won't be too long to wait for my next hospital appointment.....

LM

[Chicklet]

Well, unlike you I'm poor on cash but rich on time........ So private healthcare is a complete no-no in my case...

I took me 5 months from I contacted my GP until I got my first appointment at the neurosurgery department at the hospital. Then I waited another month (I was pleasantly surprised it wasn't any longer!!) for my MRI scan. Now I'm waiting for my next neuro appointment for further tests for my back. At least I got the scan results from my GP today - one slipped disc trapping the sciatic nerve, and two degenerated discs adding to the fun, as well as early signs of arthritis!!!

Hopefully it won't be too long to wait for my next hospital appointment.....

LM

Bud, I wasn't in anyway making light of your plight, that bit just came up in response to the question about backward referals.
I walked around for 6 months on two undiagnosed (NHS GP) slipped discs so well done you for getting your scan, my GP didn't take me seriously because I wasn't actually crying in the waiting room. I'm post op now as many know but still a hobbling, stick wielding, non-driving, non-sleeping wreck as have had further slippage. I wish you the very best and speediest of care and attention from the bottom of MY sciatic nerve (and boy that baby's huge eh?).

[Jive Brummie]

In the forces we have a bit of an advantage that we tend to get seen by a doctor as soon as we want-ish . However, as far as the medical profession goes, certainly in the air force, it seems they first ask real doctors if they want a job, then they ask vets, then they ask at the job centre and then they give them to quack's.

Don't mean to be quite so offensive, but only today one of our younger guys came into work having played football at the weekend and had obviously suffered quite a severe head injury. I'm no doctor but the dent in the side of his head was somewhat indicative. Went to the doctors complaining of searing pain down the left hand side of his face, blurred vision, dizzy spells and nausea...to which the response was...'well there is a bug going around' .

Needless to say the rest of us were not too impressed by this and sent him to the hospital with one of the other lads to which they diagnosed, after x-ray, a severe concussion which could result in blurred vision for the next 8 - 12 weeks. No working with heavy machinery or anything...erm...dodgy.

He works on missiles in one of our explosive sites

He's not coming to work tomorrow! So if you want to swap a civvy doctor for one of ours then be my guest. There are only so many ibuprofen you can take for the range of injuries sustained in my line of work.

JB.

bit off thread sorry...it just annoyed us all *rant mode off*

[Ballroom queen]

Lots of the surgery's are doing it now. So they meet the governments targets on everyone being able to get an appointment within 48 hours. A lot of GP's will only let you make appointments within 48 hours, you can't book anything further in the future. It's so the PCT's can meet their government targets.

Blair was put on the spot about it on Question Time a few weeks ago and promised to "investigate" because he "didn't know".

Hi, very true. We also have lots of stupid targets in the hospital sector - we can't cancel operations on the day if we have no beds (due to more admissions from A&E overnight) - so we cancel them the day before if we MIGHT not have enough beds - then we have the beds, but the theatres lie empty coz we had to cancel people!!!

Please, if you are unhappy about your GPs appt system please can I suggest you write to your MP. I don't agree with ESGs comment about "its up to the GP how to implement the targets" - at the moment the target is ALL patients get an appt within 2 or 3 days (can't remember which). This needs to change so there is a system of emergency appts and regular / check up appts. If they don't get the targets they get less money, if we don't get the targets we get fewer stars, less money, etc etc etc.

Crazy I know, but its the government that caused it not the GPs themselves.

[El Salsero Gringo]

I don't agree with ESGs comment about "its up to the GP how to implement the targets" - at the moment the target is ALL patients get an appt within 2 or 3 days (can't remember which).

Please explain then why you disagree that the practice (not the individual GP btw) has the freedom to meet its target in whatever way it sees fit.