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Thread: How to get a look in ??

  1. #61
    Registered User doc martin's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    One could argue he's doing the right thing - you've already had one dance, two might be seen as, well, hogging. Or is this another goalpost-moving exercise?
    Clever, but I'm sure that you know full well that MM is talking about the ladies who stay on the floor for, maybe, 10-20 dances. I was going to 10-20 dances with different partners, but I suppose that is irrelevant, as it is the number of dances not the number of partners that count.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    One could argue he's doing the right thing - you've already had one dance, two might be seen as, well, hogging. Or is this another goalpost-moving exercise?
    The 'second dance' is usually the better one, with whoever you are dancing with and I know a couple of dancers who always have the second dance but it doesn't reflect well with this thread (which I started ) woops sorry will remember that next time (if I am so lucky) when there are lots of women over

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Martin
    Clever, but I'm sure that you know full well that MM is talking about the ladies who stay on the floor for, maybe, 10-20 dances. I was going to 10-20 dances with different partners, but I suppose that is irrelevant, as it is the number of dances not the number of partners that count
    thanks DM and you are right


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    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  3. #63
    Registered User Daisy Chain's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M
    I think we have slightly lost the plot here ..........

    I was asking for a solution, or maybe a big hint to those ladeeees who hog our men (and they know who they are ) just to give the boys a bit of breathing space and let the less aggressive followers a bit of a lookin
    How about a bus stop method?

    At the end of each dance, the ladies disappear behind a curtain and come out in single file to be picked up by men queueing at the other end.

    There Sorted.

    Daisy

    (A Double Decked Little Flower)

  4. #64
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxylady
    ...A phenomenon I've seen at a local dance venue is where all the best dancers are on the floor from the start and when the music stops they swap amongst each other. Very hard for shy newbies to get a look in. There must be some guerilla tactics that can be employed??
    Generally I think it is so much easier to pick up a partner if you're dancing and keep dancing ( I don't think this is limited to good dancers ).


    Reckon the DJ could help alot here by putting a lengthly, say 30 second, gap in the music, every couple of songs.

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    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by doc martin
    Clever, but I'm sure that you know full well that MM is talking about the ladies who stay on the floor for, maybe, 10-20 dances. I was going to 10-20 dances with different partners, but I suppose that is irrelevant, as it is the number of dances not the number of partners that count.
    When I suggested that one way to alleviate a too-crowded dance floor was for people to sit out more dances, I got bitch-slapped and told in no uncertain terms that "having paid to dance, that's what I'm bl**dy well going to do." Is this any different?

  6. #66
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    When I suggested that one way to alleviate a too-crowded dance floor was for people to sit out more dances, I got bitch-slapped and told in no uncertain terms that "having paid to dance, that's what I'm bl**dy well going to do." Is this any different?
    But ........... the person (or persons) who 'bitch-slapped' you may very possibly be the ones who hop from one dancer to another whilst staying on the dance floor disregarding the fact there are many ladies on the side of the dance floor looking for spare men to ask to dance

    Actually, I think I misundertood DM post, I read and answered too quickly


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  7. #67
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    When I suggested that one way to alleviate a too-crowded dance floor was for people to sit out more dances, I got bitch-slapped
    Yeah, but you probably deserved it for looking at girl's boobs.

    Back in the olden days of the HMS President Tea Dances (not the current run, the ones back in the 90's), they used to do a Bus-stop dance. Do they still do that there - or anywhere for that matter?

    Of course, I was miserable and anti-social even back then, so I sat them out.

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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo
    Reckon the DJ could help alot here by putting a lengthly, say 30 second, gap in the music, every couple of songs.
    I'd rather be dancing.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidJames
    .....Back in the olden days of the HMS President Tea Dances (not the current run, the ones back in the 90's), they used to do a Bus-stop dance. Do they still do that there - or anywhere for that matter?
    I remember it well, I managed to get a dance with Viktor which lasted 10 seconds but I talked about it for weeks and weeks (should say years cors I still am ) - how many years ago was that David

    I introduced it once down here in Brighton, but they messed it up and have never done it again - real shame as it was a great ice breaker


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Registered User spindr's Avatar
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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Hmmm, surely the obvious answer is "the lady's excuse me" (the "gentleman's excuse me", and possibly more if Andy McG' is around ).

    There's also the snowball, taxi-rank, etc., etc.
    SpinDr.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    Hmmm, surely the obvious answer is "the lady's excuse me" (the "gentleman's excuse me", and possibly more if Andy McG' is around ).

    There's also the snowball, taxi-rank, etc., etc.
    SpinDr.
    Have to say, if all the men were like Andy McG we wouldn't have this problem - he makes a point of asking (yes he does the asking) all (and I mean all) the ladies to dance, even before they get a chance to ask him in most cases

    "the lady's excuse me" is that the 'butting in thingy' when dancing - if so that is almost what is happening at the moment


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  12. #72
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M
    - how many years ago was that David
    Blimey, I dunno.

    Not that long - probably around 1996-7? Something like that...

  13. #73
    Registered User doc martin's Avatar
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    Re: Dance cards

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    When I suggested that one way to alleviate a too-crowded dance floor was for people to sit out more dances, I got bitch-slapped and told in no uncertain terms that "having paid to dance, that's what I'm bl**dy well going to do." Is this any different?
    I may have the wrong end of the stick here, but the floor being too crowded is a different problem to my mind.

  14. #74
    Registered User LilyB's Avatar
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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by filthycute
    I completely agree with Minnie. I'm far too considerate which means i normally miss out on many dances with the "populars". If i know they have been dancing like 10 in a row i wouldn't go and ask them to dance. Some people think they are immortal and never need to drink/dry off/breathe!

    - snip -

    Being the other half of a popular guy i would also say the most frustrating thing is trying to get home at night. If i have my coat on, packing up bags, James is drying off, getting his jacket on.....does that not mean we are going home? On numerous occassions i've been sat packed up whilst James is dancing in his outdoor trainers and jacket....just because he's so polite. Why do women do this????

    - snip -

    fc x
    This is one of the main reasons I have decided to cut down drastically on my social dancing.

    As Minnie has so rightly pointed out, a substantial percentage of women who are not of the aggressive, inconsiderate and/or selfish nature (as some others on the MJ scene are) find it incredibly difficult to get a dance with the 'better' male dancers. It has always been my experience that I am seldom asked for a dance, except by those men who are good friends, and even they have to make a huge effort to do so .

    Over the past year or so, I (like Minnie) have come to notice the increasing presence of a certain group of women who persistently hog all the better male dancers all of the time, thus giving the less pushy women little chance to 'get a look in', as Minnie puts it. I am not a pushy person by nature. I am not shy or timid - I am after all a barrister who loves nothing more than a good round of advocacy in court . I can be aggressive if the need arises (just ask DavidB ) and I am definitely no pushover. However, I am also an observant, considerate and polite person by nature. I will hesitate to ask a man to dance if it is obvious he needs a rest, a wipe-down or a drink, or if I had observed him dancing non-stop for the past 5-6 tracks. I will hesitate to ask a man for a dance if I see another woman hanging around him looking as if she was about to ask him - I never push in. I do not rush in to grab a man as soon as he has finished a dance with another woman, in case he wants another with her or wants to get off the floor. I do not 'hang around' near a man who is dancing (as if waiting to pounch as soon as he finishes), the very rare exception being if I had previously promised him a dance or he was a dear friend I hadn't danced with for a long time. I almost always have only one dance with my partners, unless they ask for another or they happen to be a good friend, and then it is 2 dances max. I certainly do not 'hog' or 'stalk' the men. And just for the record, I have never ever refused a request for a dance. And for the same record, I do not often ask men to dance as I have always believed that dancing is a chivalrous activity (why else should men get to do the leading?) and as such, the expectation is for the men to do the asking. I make an exception for good friends .

    As a result of my personal convictions, I have found myself more often than not on the sidelines at every dance I go to. I am lucky if I get 1 dance out of every 4-5 tracks played. A good night for me would be having 15 dances over a 2.5 hour freestyle, and a third of that would usually be with David, the rest would be with male friends who make a special effort to find me for a dance. Occasionally I will ask someone if it is obvious he is available and happy to have a dance. It is fairly normal for me to get a total of 10 or less dances on a regular weekday freestyle night. As a result, I have had plenty of opportunity to observe what goes on on the dance floor. Having danced at various venues throughout London and the South, I have noticed that there is a group of women who without a doubt persistently 'hog' all the better male dancers at every venue. These women will stay on the dance floor practically 99.9% of the time and dance with all the best men there, often several times in one night. No sooner have they finished with one man than they have grabbed the next. Strangely enough, the next man is almost always one of the better men around, as is the next, and the next ...... It is not strictly true that there are never any men available to dance with. The men who are left on the sidelines are the ones these aggressive and pushy women will not ask to dance .

    I have spent many years observing other people dancing and what I have noted above is the honest truth and it is happening all too frequently now. It is putting off a lot of beginner and less-experienced women who are naturally less confident at asking men to dance. It is also putting me off going social dancing. As I said earlier, I am not shy or timid, yet I have a problem getting dances especially with men I enjoy dancing with. I am fairly well known on the MJ scene and am a fairly decent dancer - imagine what it must be like for the many shy and timid inexperienced female dancers around . I pay as much to get in as the aggressive and pushy women, yet I get less than half the dances they do. Because what they do is not forbidden anywhere, I have no right to tell them to desist. The only alternatives are: 1) become like them, 2) put up and shut up, or 3) stop going. 1) is not an option for me - no amount of dancing is worth becoming aggressive, pushy and inconsiderate for . 2) I have been doing for long enough now . So I guess it'll have to be 3). The sad thing is that if I stopped dancing, David is likely to as well. That would be a shame as he usually has a good time social dancing (he has no problems getting asked). It also means there is one less 'good' leader for other women to dance with.

    Apologies if this is sounding like one huge whinge - I guess it is but I wanted to let others know who may not have noticed this problem before so that if they wanted to, they could perhaps try to do something to to enable other women in the same position as myself to have a better time when they go out dancing .

    LilyB
    Last edited by LilyB; 7th-October-2005 at 10:36 PM.

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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Wow Lily, great post - says it all really.

    One smallish point though is that only having met you briefly at a WCS workshop in Bristol, I'd be scared stiff to ask you to dance (you are a bit better than me, that's for sure). Don't you think that other men might feel the same? It's our fault not yours by the way as we're cowards!

    Clearly this has nothing to do with pushy woman syndrome but may contribute to you not getting asked.

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    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyB
    This is one of the main reasons I have decided to cut down drastically on my social dancing.
    Sorry that this problem is causing you to lose your enjoyment of going out dancing, but its good to hear your observations - especially those watching from the side.

    Clevendonboy - I'm sure many men don't ask LilyB because they are in awe of her - but I think her point is that a lot of the better dancers, who would be comfortable in asking her, aren't off the floor enough to get a chance to ask her because they are constantly being asked by the more 'agressive' women. (Is that what you meant Lily?)

    Up until recently I never asked the men at all - I also am rather 'old fashioned' that way and bit shy (and also realistic in that I know there are many other better dancers they would probably prefer to dance with). I did ask some at Southport - but it was guys standing at the edge of the floor, without drinks, moving about to the music... clearly wanting to dance. Not ones who were getting a drink, coming off the floor and picking up a towel etc. And I don't think I asked anyone in the blues room, aside from a few that I would regularly dance with in there.

    I do like to wait to be asked, that way I know the man wants to dance with me, rather than is just being polite. But I travel fairly long distances to dance and so don't want to spend the evening just sitting, and I'm not there with a partner to ensure I have some dances with them. So I accept that I'm going to have to ask sometimes. But hopefully I'll never become pushy or agressive.

  17. #77
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    Wow Lily, great post - says it all really..


    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy
    One smallish point though is that only having met you briefly at a WCS workshop in Bristol, I'd be scared stiff to ask you to dance (you are a bit better than me, that's for sure). Don't you think that other men might feel the same? It's our fault not yours by the way as we're cowards......
    she really is a pussy cat and will not make you feel intimidate at all and you will feel like a million dollars after


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn
    Clevendonboy - I'm sure many men don't ask LilyB because they are in awe of her - but I think her point is that a lot of the better dancers, who would be comfortable in asking her, aren't off the floor enough to get a chance to ask her because they are constantly being asked by the more 'agressive' women. (Is that what you meant Lily?)
    So therefore ... should men refuse ?... or at least those afflicted with the "aggressive" posse?

    At least I have an excuse to refuse - ie djing, but sometimes it does wear a little thin

    Lily ... you're always welcome to grab me for a dance - even if I am "working" hehe

  19. #79
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Robin
    So therefore ... should men refuse ?... or at least those afflicted with the "aggressive" posse?
    A better solution would be for the overly aggressive women to be less so - but then that might just allow the next lot to move up...

    The best solution is probably to aim to have more even balances - maybe some women have become agressive as a way to get dances because there are more women than men? So maybe we need to persuade more men to start dancing in the first place... (I'm doing my bit - I think almost everything I have organised for MJ in NI has had more men than women )

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: How to get a look in ??

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyB
    This is one of the main reasons I have decided to cut down drastically on my social dancing.
    { snip massive and compelling post
    That's very informative, thank you.

    From a man's perspective, I never really notice this sort of thing. But from a man's perspective, I never notice anything, so what's new...

    However, if this behaviour by some women does result in advanced but non-pushy dancers dancing less, that's clearly a concern for me, from a selfish point-of-view.

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyB
    I (like Minnie) have come to notice the increasing presence of a certain group of women who persistently hog all the better male dancers all of the time
    Oh, it's the same for guys, believe me. But, this is clearly exacerbated for women because of the standard problem of not enough men.

    So there are really two problems here:
    - Some inconsiderate behaviour by some women
    - Not enough men dancing, which makes it worse (presumably, this is less of a problem as more even-ratio venues?)

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyB
    I am lucky if I get 1 dance out of every 4-5 tracks played.
    Put me down as "officially gobsmacked".

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