Ceroc UK Championships 2003

[Will]

Well the official announcement has now come out so I thought I'd start the ball rolling on this one as there are some key differences between this years champs and previous years....

Namely the addition of the OPEN Catagory and .....
....YES Teachers CAN enter
....YES Airsteps ARE allowed
....YES Stevie Wong is going to walk away with it (sorry couldn't help myself)

Seriously though, what are peoples thoughts on this?

P.S. Registration is at www.cerocchamps.com

[TheTramp]

I think it's a good idea. Although, obviously I won't be there!!

Steve

PS. GO STEVIE!!!

[Will]

My personal feelings are in favour of including teachers but against airsteps. It's going to be great to see teachers go head to head with other advanced dancers too. However I would have like the rules (ie the ball of one foot on the floor) to be the same as the other catagories so that you could compare like with like. I'm also worried that there might now be a whole load of couples practising airsteps at normal Ceroc nights, causing a danger to themselves and the other dancers.

The good news is that you are allowed to enter the Advanced and the Open.

I suppose the other question is who will enter the open Catagory? (Bare in mind that they are only allowing 10 couples to compete in it this year). I've heard from Mick W. that he intends to do it. But will V&L be lured? I'd be surprised but it would be great if they did! Perhaps we should post a dream top 10 of dance couples we'd like to see line up in this catagory....

[Will]

Mine would be (in alphabetical order)

Amir & Kate
Clayton & Janine
Graham LeClerc & Sarah (??)
Mick & Hannah
James & Hayley
Joseph & Trisha
Nigel & Nina
Paul Tavanasu & Partner (based on Reputation - I've never seen him dance)
Stevie Wong & Debstar
Viktor & Lydia

[Gus]

Originally posted by Will
Mine would be (in alphabetical order)

Amir & Kate
Clayton & Janine
Graham LeClerc & Sarah (??)
Mick & Hannah
James & Hayley
Joseph & Trisha
Nigel & Nina
Paul Tavanasu & Partner (based on Reputation - I've never seen him dance)
Stevie Wong & Debstar
Viktor & Lydia

And (as ODA) one might ask who would judge such an august range of dancers. There a few teachers in CTA who have a big rep or indeed experiemce of dance competition. The only names that come to mind are Mike Allard and Linda Barker (who I notice are missing from your couples list), Sue Taylor and Sue Freeman (apologies for any whom my ignorance has ommitted). Or ... would Ceroc actualy bring in some of the big names of the Modern Jive world who actualy have some experience ... i.e. the Judges who are going the UK Open Champs (Blackpool)

[Will]

You make a good point Gus (ODA). I would like to see the veritable Mr Roger Chin on the panel for starters. And yes I'd forgetten about Mike & Lynda. (and loads of others too I'm sure).

Going back to my original point though, I'd still prefer it without the airsteps.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Will

Going back to my original point though, I'd still prefer it without the airsteps.

Agreed ..sort of.

Over the last month or so I've been reflecting on the NZ/Aussie 'airsteps' philospophy. Interestingly, they have a different definition of an airstep. It something along the lines that the womans hips (?) have to be higher than the guy's chest for it to be an airstep (please corrrect if I've got this wrong). the net result is that moves like simple straight ifts, hip hop, half loops etc are all allowable. If this approach was taken for an OPEN competition I think I would be in favour.

[bradders]

Application forms have been posted out to all dancers who have attended in the last couple of years and are available at all Ceroc venues.
The first official Champs website has been launched and can be found on www.cerocchamps.com
It is not finished yet but still lots to look at.
New competition category this year the Open Category, which is, as its name suggests, open to anyone, teachers and dance professionals included. 4 aerials per track allowed, only 10 places available, (a couple already gone). So if you want to be that star on top of the pile (you will have to see the new Champs logo to get the relevance of that!) then book on-line NOW.
It's on 4th May 2003 hence the new strapline.......
MAY THE FORTH........BE WITH YOU.
Hope to see you all there

[Gary]

Originally posted by Gus
...

Over the last month or so I've been reflecting on the NZ/Aussie 'airsteps' philospophy.

Heavens, I didn't know we had a philosophy over here. Sounds dangerously intellectual.

Interestingly, they have a different definition of an airstep. It something along the lines that the womans hips (?) have to be higher than the guy's chest for it to be an airstep (please corrrect if I've got this wrong).

From http://www.cerocdance.com.au/champs_2003/ceroc.asp

"ground" Ceroc moves ie, some part or the whole of each dancers
body must always remain below the waist of their partner(s) at all times

whereas the Open advanced category is "anything goes". With the Open section they make sure they've got a much smaller number of couples on the floor at a time. Last year I found the Open section spectacular, but not as satisfying as the Classical (with ground moves only). Oh and teachers compete in both the Advanced Classical and the Advanced Open.

[Gus]

Originally posted by David Bradley
New competition category this year the Open Category, which is, as its name suggests, open to anyone, teachers and dance professionals included........, only 10 places available,

Only 10 places available...

Lets see ... there are about 100 Ceroc teachers ... about 15 Blitz, about the same MoJive, 40 or so LeRoc teachers ... at least 50 independants and lets say around 50+ advanced dancers who aren't teachers....

Is it just bad maths and my warped logic but I'm not sure if 10 places will bring forth a real compeiton of the UKs brightest and finest.... or am I being unfair ... as usual

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Will
Going back to my original point though, I'd still prefer it without the airsteps.

(I noticed that the Bristol competition is going to allow 3 airsteps as well.)

It utterly and completely puts me off entering. I trust very few people to do an airstep within 15 feet of me when I dance. I certainly couldn't think of 9 other couples...

How are you going to compare someone who dances well, but does no airsteps, with someone who can't dance, but can do amazing airsteps? You have to decide if it is a dance competition, or an gymnastics competition.

Do the judges know enough about aerials to judge them? Do they know what is difficult, and what is easy? Are there any guidelines for marking the entry and exit to aerials?

It also give the wrong impression to the average dancer. "If you want to look good, you must do 3 or 4 airsteps every song!"

I agree with Will - leave the aerials to the Showcase, or a separate aerials category. This is a *very* bad idea.

David

[Gus]

Originally posted by DavidB

Do the judges know enough about aerials to judge them? Do they know what is difficult, and what is easy? Are there any guidelines for marking the entry and exit to aerials?
David

Hmmm ... this is issue of judges comes up again. given that Ceroc instructors are not trained to do airstpes ... and that they are disuaded from doing them ... I wouldn't have thought they were best qualified to judge them.

An additional point occured to me yesterday ... while eagerly watching my newly delivered vid of the 2002 Ceroc champs. It was a bit hard to tell (the vid was very dark) ..but the advanced Heat seemd to be about 20 couples competing at the same time. How can you judge that? With a 3 minute trck, thats 180 seconds ... that means that the judges had 9 seconds per couple! Sorry .. but at that level there is no way you can make an informed decision. At Blackpool, there are three heats in the first round and the judges sit at an elevated position so they've a better view of the floor.

[Gus]

Originally posted by Will
Mine would be (in alphabetical order)

Amir & Kate
Clayton & Janine
Graham LeClerc & Sarah (??)
Mick & Hannah
James & Hayley
Joseph & Trisha
Nigel & Nina
Paul Tavanasu & Partner (based on Reputation - I've never seen him dance)
Stevie Wong & Debstar
Viktor & Lydia

Just noticed ... no dancers mentioned from the North, Midlands or Scotland. Hmmmm, surely there is some talent outside the South

[Will]

Originally posted by Gus
Just noticed ... no dancers mentioned from the North, Midlands or Scotland. Hmmmm, surely there is some talent outside the South

That is probably because I hardly know any!!!! I just put down MY dream 10.

Come on man, it's just a bit of fun. Rather than criticising my selection - How about posting yours???

(throws his hands up in the air )

[Gus]

Originally posted by Will

Come on man, it's just a bit of fun. Rather than criticising my selection - How about posting yours???

Will-Boy, forgive me ... you misunderstood my comment. It was more of an open question to those in the more civilised parts of the UK to propose their local heroes.



Must admit, can't think of too many contendors in the North to the real a list, i.e. the likes of Amir, Nigel, Viktor, Clayton, Paul and their equally talented partners. However, for the rest ... in the North West there is (Pistol) Pete, George (Blues) Moss, Paula Chaloner and Clare Duggan. In the North East there are such stars as Sue Freeman, Dan the Body and Helen Zambass. I think that the Blackpool champs will be a good proving ground as to their worth against the better known Southern 'names' ... except for Pete who unfortunatly will be off snowboarding. Pete is probably the best male dancer in the North and I would match him against anyone not in the A list.

As for the Ceroc Champs ... well I don't know if any of the better Northern dancers would enter ... certainly the ones I've spoken to don't regard the Ceroc champs on the same level as Blackpool at advanced level .... but this may change....

PS Re thye mythical S Wong ... was he the guy in the final of the Intermediates at Ceroc 2002 wearing white top, black trous with flashy bits on the side dancing with a blonde partner?

[Will]

Fair enough Gus.

And Yes Mr Wong was the chap you mentioned with the blonde partner (who happens to be James Geary's wife - Leana).

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Gus
the judges sit at an elevated position so they've a better view of the floor.

I've never liked the judges sitting on stage.

I the heats - when there are a lot of couples on the floor, I prefer judges to walk around. It is the only way to have any chance on an unrestricted, close-up view of each couple.

In the final, the judges can see without moving. But putting them on stage give the competitors a problem - do you perform for the judges, or the audience? It is better to get the judges sitting on chairs on the floor, in front of the audience.

that means that the judges had 9 seconds per couple!

And in that 9 seconds they have to see the couples number, find that number on their scoring sheets, and write something on what they think of the dancers - as well as judging the couple against everyone else!

Although it might be nice to have fewer couples in each heat, it is not always practical. It takes a long time to call couples to the floor, check everyone is there, and collect the marks afterwards. A faster option might be to have 2 or 3 songs in each heat...

David

[TheTramp]

Must admit, can't think of too many contendors in the North to the real a list, i.e. the likes of Amir, Nigel, Viktor, Clayton, Paul and their equally talented partners. However, for the rest ... in the North West there is (Pistol) Pete, George (Blues) Moss, Paula Chaloner and Clare Duggan. In the North East there are such stars as Sue Freeman, Dan the Body and Helen Zambass.

I'm sure it's just modesty, but the list seems to be missing the namesake of a certain gorgeous gorilla!! Or are you just in there by default, since you're (presumably) dancing with the lovely Helen then Gus??

Steve

[bradders]

Just a couple of things in regard to the Open Category and the Showcase.
Firstly the Open Category will be run as two heats of 5 couples dancing to two tracks, one modern, one classic, of different bpm.
There will then be a final of 5 couples dancing to two tracks etc.
The Open is not an aerials category...there is just the option of including up to 4 aerials per track. The winners will be those who in the opinion of the judges are the best, judged in accordance with the rules for that category.
We have included this category and the option of aerials because of feedback from the last couple of Champs....this it seems is what the people want!
Also, the Showcase was originally a category in which dancers could showcase a different gendre of dance, i.e. if a couple wanted to do a classical ballet piece then they could.
There have been more and more Modern Jive based Showcase submissions over the last couple of years which has lead to the original concept being eroded.
This year all Showcase submissions will be vetted to ensure that the quality of content is maintained and that the widest possible spread of style/concepts are represented.
The Open Category is also an platform for advanced modern jivers who want to show off their aerial skills.
This is not a specialist aerials competition.
We must try and maintain the quality and the entertainment value of the event,along with balance between competition/displays and freestyle..
The changes introduced this year are generated by feedback from the attendees.
We want to continually improve the event and all feedback, of which there is always a fair amount, has, and will continue to be analysed, and where appropriate, acted upon.
Also just incase your interested there are only a few places left in both categories so sign up quick if your thinking of entering.

[Gus]

Originally posted by David Bradley
......the Open Category will be run as two heats of 5 couples dancing to two tracks, one modern, one classic, of different bpm.
There will then be a final of 5 couples dancing to two tracks etc.
........The winners will be those who in the opinion of the judges are the best, judged in accordance with the rules for that category...........We want to continually improve the event and all feedback, of which there is always a fair amount, has, and will continue to be analysed, and where appropriate, acted upon.

Dave, thanks for the info.

Raising a few points raised earlier ... could you advise who the judges will be?

To be honest, the competition is expensive to enter and the fact the intermediate prize is the same as those in the more advanced categories erodes the prize being a reason to enter ... so competitiors may only be drawn if they think that the kudos of the competition is sufficient for them to incur the expense. I can only speak for myslef when I say the major decision point would be the calibre of the judges ..... so who are they