Advance Weekender

[Minnie M]

I have seriously thought of organising an Advance Weekender

Joseph & Trisha did a Lindy one, they called it Lindyversity and it was very sucessful - they just used Steve Mitchell + his partner Virginee

It would have to be invitation only to ensure the level and the teachers would possibly be international

I believe that advance dancers are not interested in learning new moves in MJ ... so how does this grab you :-

Top US WCS teachers (eg: Robert Cordoba etc)
Top Salsa teachers - have to ask about that one
Top Lindy/Balboa Teachers - could use Dan & Christie for this one
and my favourite
Steve Mitchell for styling and musicality

The maximum of 200 dancers and the venue to be a hotel with a decent ballroom

+ DJs TWK & Dance Demon plus will ask the teachers to do some DJing ???

The cost would be (depending of who was booked) between £150 and £250 inclusive of weekend + half board at hotel

Could cut the cost and just have one the pros teaching just two lessons per day and the rest of the time would be for socialising

Comments Please ............

[jivecat]

Well, no-one's said "Silly idea" yet, Minnie! But how the hell would you organise selective invitations? Rather you than me.

[Minnie M]

Well, no-one's said "Silly idea" yet, Minnie! But how the hell would you organise selective invitations? Rather you than me.

Yes that would be the difficult bit, I thinking of may be dancing for one year plus minimum and then I suppose you just have to trust people to be honest about their ability.

The invitation bit, could cause bad feeling - I was hoping some forumites would come up with ideas

[Little Monkey]

Hmmmmm...

Well, I do like the idea of a weekender with a guaranteed 'minimum level' of dancers as well as top teachers. But an 'invitation only' weekender would probably be a sure-fire way to fall out with rather a lot of people, all in one go..... Rather you than me, Minnie!!

LM

[doc martin]

Only 8 votes so far, but the thing that really stands out is the 100% in favour of the styling/musicality. That makes me think that this is something that people are wanting a lot, weekender or no weekender.

[Chicklet]

.
The invitation bit, could cause bad feeling - I was hoping some forumites would come up with ideas

Personal opinion, and I'll stand by it in face of any flaming, is that if a bunch of people who know each other or "get invited" by a central person who has volunteered to organise such a thing or by being friend of a friend of that person then that's a great thing. It's the phantom clique thing all over again, and I personally hate to see people putting other people down for getting on with it and having a good time.

Anyone who gets upset and thinks they were "owed" an invitation should remember that they are not in primary school, we don't all have to have the same carton of orange juice.

A "bonus" weekender such as this should be seen as just that, nothing has been taken away from the people who don't go, they just didn't get the bonus.

I for one would be delighted to hear that some people, somewhere, some time had a good time at something. End of ( ).

[Andy McGregor]

Is it any coincidence that a 'top Lindy teacher' is as popular as a 'silly idea'?

[Paul F]

I guess this is along the same lines of thinking that I had for the "advanced class in london" thread.

Its tricky to organise. I think thats a given.

However, i am all for it. I am all for it in the same way that I was all for the idea of approving people in the class before they could move up to the next level - similar to the classes in Oz.

the issue of 'qualification' is one that I can see everyone benefitting from.

My eternal optimist side forsees a time when people dont mind that they do not qualify for class x or weekend y. They are not in it to excel but rather enjoy it.
On the other hand some people will strive to get on that exclusive weekender. They may make it, they may not. If they are not invited they may then stop dancing but I would suggest we lose just as many people who simply lose interest as we would people who drop out through lack of qualification.

Ok, it would generate a core group of 'supreme' beings but I would imagine most of these people may be booked onto weekenders to teach amongst other things so ultimately the information would be passed on and we would all improve.
Loads of issues around this - "good dancer doesnt make good teacher" and so on. Im tired so im just typing.



Alternatively if a weekend goes ahead and i am not invited i may boil with rage and go round kicking old people.

[Minnie M]

My favourite dance holiday was the WCS Cruise I did in 2002 -with the very top professional teachers

It was very interesting to see that at least half of the 200 people who attended were teachers themselves.

I know that Nigel & Nina always (try) and attend workshops etc., from some of the top US dancers.

With this in mind, I think (only an idea) I could invite (primarily) all the current MJ teachers and asked them to 'invite' their top students - how does that sound

BTW this would be an event for Modern Jive dancers, I don't want WCS only or Lindy only etc.,

Wont it be great to know EVERY dancer in the hall (evening dance and dancing MJ) maybe as good or better than yourself (sorry if this offends - but to me this is dancing heaven)

[Lory]

Comments Please ............

Even numbers of ladies and men?

[ChrisA]

I've voted, but with some reservation.

If I was going to spend as much money as this on something where the theme was advanced dancing, I'd want the emphasis to be much more on the teaching than the freestyle, unlike the other weekenders - I wouldn't stay up all night dancing, to be too tired to actually learn anything the next day.

On a normal weekender, I know what I'll be doing - two or three workshops max, and a lot of freestyle. And it's not a disaster if the workshops aren't as good as I hoped.

But for this, I'd want to know, in advance, a lot more detail about what was actually going to be taught and by whom, and I'd also want a way of being confident that my money wasn't going to be wasted.

Because if my personal emphasis is on the teaching, I would end up extremely disappointed if (a) the teaching wasn't very good or (b) the class ended up being pitched at the wrong level for me. I mean, there's no way I'd go to an advanced Tango or WCS because I'm nowhere near good enough, so I wouldn't want to hold the rest of the class back. But I would go to an advanced jive class and expect to be able to at least cope - and I'd be really annoyed if the content had to be dumbed down to cater for people that shouldn't be there.

So I guess the issue is how to guarantee the level. Invitation only would do it of course. But of course then we'd have to deal with all the hard-done-bys. But maybe that's a price worth paying.

[ChrisA]

Anyone who gets upset and thinks they were "owed" an invitation should remember that they are not in primary school, we don't all have to have the same carton of orange juice.

Nice one

Have some rep.

[LMC]

What Chicklet said

It's the same principle as a private party.

Wont it be great to know EVERY dancer in the hall (evening dance and dancing MJ) maybe as good or better than yourself (sorry if this offends - but to me this is dancing heaven)

And too

There is NO WAY I would qualify at the moment - but as Paul F has said, it would give me something to strive for.

And hopefully those who came back would pass on some titbits to help me get there

[Clive Long]

<< snip >>
With this in mind, I think (only an idea) I could invite (primarily) all the current MJ teachers and asked them to 'invite' their top students - how does that sound
<< snip >>
Wont it be great to know EVERY dancer in the hall (evening dance and dancing MJ) maybe as good or better than yourself (sorry if this offends - but to me this is dancing heaven)

I think it is great to aspire and work to improve one's own dancing. I also think it is great for someone to go along to MJ because he/she enjoys the social side and does no practice whatsoever - this has been covered elsewhere, many times.

However, I have great problems with the proposed "composition" of this premier division event.

OK, if it was a teacher's only conference where people could be exposed to new variations to keep them fresh - fine. At Southport I spoke to Sarah(?) who teaches on the South Coast. Sarah(?) says she is constantly looking for new inspiration so she doesn't go stale. A very open and positive attitude from an established teacher.

However, the idea of making the event invitation-only is invidious in my eyes. How does this "judging" for invitation occur? Do we have a nation-wide competition? Even the principle of having an exclusive event (ignoring the damaged, fragile egos of those who missed the "cut") really winds me up. Barriers to entry in anything get my goat - although I accept I am probably far too idealistic in that emotional response.

I can understand the desire to teach more complex and subtle dance "things". To deliver the class at the pace necessary to get through the material - your dancers have to be of a certain technical and "repertoire" standard. I understand this.

Now, if you have a grading and medal system like (as I understand) ballroom then "admission/selection" criteria to this event can be (as near as humanely possible) objective and evenly applied. MJ has no such structure (to my knowledge) and mate-ism/croneyism and long-standing personal animosities could affect the selection process.

But I fail to see what the "greater" benefit of getting the "MJ Invitation-Only All-Stars" together would be - but maybe I am missing the point of Minnie's proposal.

Sorry for going on - and I have probably over-reacted - but the invitation-only idea, even if done with the best intentions, hits all kinds of negative buttons for me.

Clive

[Paul F]

There are 2 different ways to look at this IMO

An intensive TEACHERS weekend to advance the knowledge of MJ and other styles nationwide.

OR

A general, invitation only, weekend for anyone considered advanced enough.


The first option, i imagine, would bring with it less hostility as it can be perceived as a benefit to the those not able to attend ie. good chance these teachers will bring back plenty of knowledge to teach and evolve.

The second option is where it gets tricky. Teacher / Non-Teacher is a defined divide, be it good or bad.To divide the general public. I am a little concerned about it. This WILL bring with it hostility by some.

Even if the first of these options was the way forward how do you define teacher? Is it somebody who makes their living teaching and does 6 classes a week or is it someone who has been 'trained' to teach a small group of folk on a sunday afternoon?



As much as I would like to see it (whether i would be invited or not) it does have so many difficulties.

[David Franklin]

There's no way I'd go to an advanced Tango or WCS because I'm nowhere near good enough, so I wouldn't want to hold the rest of the class back. But I would go to an advanced jive class and expect to be able to at least cope - and I'd be really annoyed if the content had to be dumbed down to cater for people that shouldn't be there.

Which perhaps gives one hint - maybe the 'qualification level' needs to depend on the class being taught.

So I guess the issue is how to guarantee the level. Invitation only would do it of course.

Other suggestion - allow all-levels, but in a way that doesn't let the bad dancers screw things up for everyone else. E.g.

A lot of musicality classes are virtually lectures - if you have 50 people who can't even keep a beat, they might not understand any of it, but that doesn't mean they cause problems for the rest. I think in particular, if you want WCS teachers to teach musicality, styling etc, it's not necessarily productive to do this in a standard format - everyone gets too caught up struggling with the WCS side of things. They might as well just teach and illustrate, and let us think about what they're demonstrating.

Don't do rotations in the usual way - let people form their own 'groups' to rotate in. If two beginners want to try the class together, that's their lookout. And if you have a group who know each other well, then it's easier for them to provide feedback and suggestions to each other. Of course, this begs the question of how you get invited into a group.

N.B. I'm fully aware the above doesn't really solve the overall problem - just something to think about...

[Feelingpink]

...

With this in mind, I think (only an idea) I could invite (primarily) all the current MJ teachers and asked them to 'invite' their top students - how does that sound

...]

I like this idea or a variation on it - their top students or people they know? You 'should' get lots of overlap and it might help cover those people who would be good enough to attend, but don't go to a regular class. Some people can be brilliant after perhaps 18 months, others are just not going to get it after however many years.

It also might be interesting that while on the event, if it might become a regular one, that we have to anonymously rate others who are there - perhaps 20 other people you danced with? That way if there were any dancers who shouldn't have been at the first event, they get weeded out.

...
Other suggestion - allow all-levels, but in a way that doesn't let the bad dancers screw things up for everyone else. E.g.

A lot of musicality classes are virtually lectures - if you have 50 people who can't even keep a beat, they might not understand any of it, but that doesn't mean they cause problems for the rest. I think in particular, if you want WCS teachers to teach musicality, styling etc, it's not necessarily productive to do this in a standard format - everyone gets too caught up struggling with the WCS side of things. They might as well just teach and illustrate, and let us think about what they're demonstrating....

The only problem I can see with this is that there are different types of learners: those who are best doing, those who are best listening and those who are best seeing. This would only suit those who are best listening. Now, if you could combine all three AND not hold everyone back ... hmmm.

[ducasi]

It also might be interesting that while on the event, if it might become a regular one, that we have to anonymously rate others who are there - perhaps 20 other people you danced with? That way if there were any dancers who shouldn't have been at the first event, they get weeded out.

Yikes!

[Clive Long]

<< snip >>
That way if there were any dancers who shouldn't have been at the first event, they get weeded out.
<< snip >>

Maybe we could get Ann Robinson to abuse them before they left

or get Davina whats-her-name to shoot them on live TV with a humane killer. Think of the ratings !

Do you get the impressionI don't like this idea?

I will shut up now

Clive

[David Franklin]

I like this idea or a variation on it - their top students or people they know? You 'should' get lots of overlap and it might help cover those people who would be good enough to attend, but don't go to a regular class. Some people can be brilliant after perhaps 18 months, others are just not going to get it after however many years.

Good point. Slight aside, but does anyone have an estimate for the number of MJ teachers in the country?

The only problem I can see with this is that there are different types of learners: those who are best doing, those who are best listening and those who are best seeing. This would only suit those who are best listening.

Listening and seeing, surely - I was assuming the teacher would still demonstrate. Doing is harder - I guess you could have people going off in the corners to "have a go", but it's not a great solution.

If we're talking about time-limited workshops, I do think there's a spectrum between classes that really demand the students to be hands on, and classes which are effectively lectures. It would be crazy to teach a set of moves without allowing the students to do the moves themselves. But if you wanted to talk about choregraphing a showcase, I'm not sure there's much to be gained by trying to put the concepts into practice in a short space of time.

I also think if you're talking both "advanced" and "learning by doing", at some point you're probably better off getting a private lesson.