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Thread: A new H******s?

  1. #41
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    Re: A new H******s?

    My vast experience of WCS is one night at a Fred & Becky's freestyle, when I got there after the class, and I drool over the champs WCS vids on the Web. For two years my night a F&B's was my best ever nights dancing, because, despite there being a surplus of men, I was in constant demand to do MJ with a collection of great dancers.

    It is just possible that WCS would not be where it is today in the States if it had to compete with MJ from the start, because of the learning curve. One does not need to dance like the better WCS dancers in order to have a great time, MJ will meet most folks needs. MJ will indeed be a good feeder for WCS where the most stylish dancers are concerned, but it could also pull away a lot of the beginners who want more "bang per buck". Regretably I think WCS may continue to struggle to expand in this country, unless it can pull off something like an "as seen on TV" miracle.

    An advanced venue will attract dancers, but most of them are are also pulled back to their social group at "home".

  2. #42
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessalicious
    Rather than it being a bad idea, I think the mistake you made, Paul, is to be have mentioned this on the public section of the forum.

    Obviously you need the invitation-only, advanced-enough-dancers/cool-enough-people section that doesn't really exist, nudge-nudge-wink-wink.

    When you're judged good enough to be invited to join that group, as decided by a secret committee whose identities are not know even to each other, then will open up a whole new underworld of nights just like this that only the elite few know about...

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I see your point.

    So what your saying is there may well already be one of these nights around?
    Time to don the false hat and moustache and attempt to infiltrate this secret gang

    Just trying to think of what questions i could ask potential members of this gang to see if they are part of this hotshot organisation.

    How about "when you go to a venue, do you stand near the stage?"
    Last edited by Paul F; 23rd-September-2005 at 04:51 PM.

  3. #43
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F
    Am i the only one that wants another hipsters-like night back
    The basic concept is spt on and I think there IS a real need for what you are suggesting. Unfortunately the killer problems are (in my bitter experience);

    1. Cost of a decent sized venue (in London costs can exceed £800 very easily)
    2. Providing a Teacher and DJ up to the mark
    3. Managing to publicise the event to the MJ public without access to the Ceroc network
    4. The possible backlash from competing MJ organisations
    If it could get off the group I'd love to support it but the demise of Hipsters shows just how fraught the project is.

    Hey ho ... suppose I'll just have to 'slum it' Jango

  4. #44
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus
    Cost of a decent sized venue (in London costs can exceed £800 very easily)
    without using an expletive, gosh darn it (well i am in Surrey now) I didnt realise it was that expensive

  5. #45
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F
    without using an expletive, gosh darn it (well i am in Surrey now) I didnt realise it was that expensive
    Urrrr .. meant to say £500 Still not cheap ... but then good venues up North cost over £300!

  6. #46
    Registered User El Salsero Gringo's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F
    How about "when you go to a venue, do you stand near the stage?"
    And do your postings on the Forum include secret white-ink-on-whte-background messages in very small fonts?
    a bit like this one...

  7. #47
    Registered User ChrisA's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin
    It's often the worst dancers who are convinced they're advanced - if you think about it, Hipsters probably had more "must avoid" dancers than any of the London Ceroc venues.
    Really?

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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F
    As far as I can tell London , and quite frankly anywhere, does not have a night that caters exclusively to the more experienced dancer. I believe there are nights that run advanced classes HOWEVER these classes also target beginners with beginner classes.
    I would say that Monday Night Jango is a class that caters exclusively to more advanced dancers. Indeed, we don't have the time or space to run a beginners class, so we've got a load of Ceroc London flyers on the door, and Kate & I make a point of dancing with any beginners that do come, and also finding out where they live so that we can inform them of their closest Ceroc venue.

  9. #49

    Re: A new H******s?

    Paul
    at the Winning Post in Twickenham - very close and accessable to you we offered the following
    Advance classes on a rotational week by week basis from the best we could find from
    Simon Selmon
    Nina Daines
    Amir
    Rena
    Nicole Cutler
    We had two hours freestyle every night with me DJ'ing
    Our sound system was really good
    the venue had air conditioning, car parking, easy access
    each table had tableclothes, candles flowers
    The dance floor was fantastic (Simon Selmon was very impressed with it)
    it had everything you want (and beginners classes taught by me and Evelyne)....well everything that is except dancers, average attendance was 25, we lost count on how many said they would come back WHEN IT GOT BUSIER - we thought there was a demand for this type of venue, we even tried mixing WCS & MJ, like JB said this does not work well.

    My advice is go to your regular venue, make the new dancers feel good and enjoy the experience, cos one day they could well become the dance gods of tomorrow.
    Hipsters was a mix of the Best in MJ (Nigel) best in Lindy (Andy & Rena) best DJ in the UK (Jon Brett) joining forces, bring those three components back and you will have a new Hipsters)
    peter

  10. #50
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Some very good points there LL + will.

    It does appear as the event that was hipsters may never be repeated.
    I guess I was after something too perfect for my particular wants + desires rather than those of the general public.

    Im glad I asked the question though. Although I, personally, would still like to see it happen I completely understand that in the current climate it simply may not succeed. The evidence seems to support this.

    I intend to try and get to Jango as I have heard nothing but great things. Its just mondays Its always a bit trickier for me to get of work early enough to endure the endless queue that is the london transport network.


    LL - is the night you talk about still going on. It really does sound good but I can see what you mean about the dreaded catch 22. People wont turn up without people there

  11. #51
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    And do your postings on the Forum include secret white-ink-on-whte-background messages in very small fonts?
    a bit like this one...
    Have you seen the film "conspiracy theory"? Im starting to feel like our Mel
    You're all plotting against me i can tell

  12. #52

    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F
    LL - is the night you talk about still going on. It really does sound good but I can see what you mean about the dreaded catch 22. People wont turn up without people there
    no - it was running for 6 months and that was enough.
    And yes it really was a good night classes focusing on musicality and music was a mix of Latin, Swing, blues, Pop, + RnB
    there was so much room for dancing half the venue was used for competition practice by some (with our blessing & encouragement)

    I am suprised you did not know about it
    It was promoted by Jump & Jive, on this forum, My mailing list, Leroc Dorking, UK Jive Website, at Southport etc. etc.
    p

  13. #53
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    no - it was running for 6 months and that was enough.
    And yes it really was a good night classes focusing on musicality and music was a mix of Latin, Swing, blues, Pop, + RnB
    there was so much room for dancing half the venue was used for competition practice by some (with our blessing & encouragement)

    I am suprised you did not know about it
    It was promoted by Jump & Jive, on this forum, My mailing list, Leroc Dorking, UK Jive Website, at Southport etc. etc.
    p

    To be honest, with my memory, if I hadnt seen an advert for it since moving down here I wouldnt have remembered

    Thats a real shame. I would have been there for sure.

  14. #54
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    Cool Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Brett
    I think that WCS will be massive in the UK. Mainly because it can be danced to the modern R&B tunes that are not ideal for MJ. But at the moment WCS is still very much in its infancy. Until there's a bit more experience out there, pure WCS nights are the way to go.
    Jon
    WCS the new Ceroc
    Hmmm. I like WCS, I think it will be very popular, but not on the same scale as MJ/Ceroc. Why? Because MJ is easy, there's little footwork and that makes it accessible to the masses. WCS is cool, but the footwork means you have to 'have your head on'. Most MJ/Ceroc dancers are out for an evening's fun and entertainment, not to work on their dancing. Forumites excepted of course - but the Forum ain't the dance market!

    Pure Evenings
    Are difficult because, being niche, they appeal to smaller audiences.
    Mainstream event organisers try and strike a happy balance by aiming the event at a broader target audience - and the music needs to be a whole mix of stuff, bitsa jive, bitsa pop, bitsa swing, bitsa chart, bitsa lindy. Yes they pull in a bigger audience but dancers end up liking some music, and not liking other tracks. So you get mostly happy dancers and a busy night, but a bunch of the keener dancers are left wanting something a bit different.

    Toons
    On the music side, I love the challenge of playing to different dance nights and events, and coming up with the bitsa mix that keeps everybody happy (whilst slipping in da Kenobe every now and then ). I DJ because I love dancing and I love the music. Given free reign (Jango) then my personal challenge is to find those elusive tracks that i) sound fabtastic, ii) grab you by the dancing dangly bits, and iii) appeal to a variety of different dance styles. By trial and error I have found that there is scope for playing tracks that work for both MJ and WCS, some of them are indeed R&B/Groove/hiphop/Rap. This probably works for me because I tend not to play the faster MJ (Lindy type) tracks, therefore the MJ tracks I do play aren't such a contrast with the WCSwingable tracks. Beginners WCSers would still probably struggle because the music would be faster than class WCS tracks.
    So I reckon there is music that would underpin a MJ/WCS focussed night....

    A Southport highlight for me was playing a set in the bluesville room, I played a Kenobe Cool Groove set, not a single blues track ( -step away from the neg rep button!!! I know not to try and compete with the Blues experts.). It was great to see such a mix of Jivers Bluesers WCSers Hiphoppers doing their special thing. Most likely, because it was Southport, people were going to dance come what may, but I'd like to think the music played a part.

    I reckon a joint MJ/WCS night could work, it may need to be a monthly rather than a weekly event. You will never know if you don't try.

    TwK

  15. #55
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Curious ... don't you think that the new JiveTime Ealing night couldn't turn out to be as good as Hipsters? Granted, we don't have Jon Brett or Nigel, but Franco and Roger both seem very open to feedback and keen on making the changes needed to make it work.

    We'll have to see what happens … As a customer, I have no special loyalty to any particular organisation but would love to see another successful Hipsters-type venue (I do miss it) - great music, people, easy to get to/park and, esp, going on til 11.30pm.

    I definitely agree with Dancing Teeth re. new blood. I've never felt the need for a regular venue aimed exclusively at advanced dancers. Just think - how many girls have you danced with who have never been to MJ before, but who followed beautifully and felt absolutely natural? How about people like Killingtime who's only been dancing a few months and is already superb?

    Would you really want to exclude people like that who may feel as if they're not experienced enough to come in? New Blood's good!

    I really strongly believe (though I'm an idealist and, of course, I've never tried it!) that if you teach people correctly from the start, there's no reason why beginners can't become 'advanced'/wonderful to dance with very quickly.

    Rachel

  16. #56
    Junior Member Dancing Teeth's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel
    I definitely agree with Dancing Teeth re. new blood. I've never felt the need for a regular venue aimed exclusively at advanced dancers. Just think - how many girls have you danced with who have never been to MJ before, but who followed beautifully and felt absolutely natural? How about people like Killingtime who's only been dancing a few months and is already superb?

    Would you really want to exclude people like that who may feel as if they're not experienced enough to come in? New Blood's good!

    I really strongly believe (though I'm an idealist and, of course, I've never tried it!) that if you teach people correctly from the start, there's no reason why beginners can't become 'advanced'/wonderful to dance with very quickly.

    Rachel

  17. #57
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rachel
    Curious ... don't you think that the new JiveTime Ealing night couldn't turn out to be as good as Hipsters? Granted, we don't have Jon Brett or Nigel, but Franco and Roger both seem very open to feedback and keen on making the changes needed to make it work.

    We'll have to see what happens … As a customer, I have no special loyalty to any particular organisation but would love to see another successful Hipsters-type venue (I do miss it) - great music, people, easy to get to/park and, esp, going on til 11.30pm.

    I definitely agree with Dancing Teeth re. new blood. I've never felt the need for a regular venue aimed exclusively at advanced dancers. Just think - how many girls have you danced with who have never been to MJ before, but who followed beautifully and felt absolutely natural? How about people like Killingtime who's only been dancing a few months and is already superb?

    Would you really want to exclude people like that who may feel as if they're not experienced enough to come in? New Blood's good!

    I really strongly believe (though I'm an idealist and, of course, I've never tried it!) that if you teach people correctly from the start, there's no reason why beginners can't become 'advanced'/wonderful to dance with very quickly.

    Rachel

    Understand completely with what you are saying and agree in the main.

    BUT

    Do you think Hipsters would have done so well, at its prime, attracting the best dancers on a regular basis if, at say 8pm, it had a beginners class then the usual masterclass at 9?

    One of two things would have happened. Either the beginners class would have stopped as most beginners would have felt rather intimidated OR some (only some) of the better dancers would not have come along.
    Either way I dont think it would have been as popular.

  18. #58
    Junior Member Dancing Teeth's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul F
    BUT

    Do you think Hipsters would have done so well, at its prime, attracting the best dancers on a regular basis if, at say 8pm, it had a beginners class then the usual masterclass at 9?

    One of two things would have happened. Either the beginners class would have stopped as most beginners would have felt rather intimidated OR some (only some) of the better dancers would not have come along.
    Either way I dont think it would have been as popular.
    They did have a beginners Class. The beginners where asked to go on the Wednesday, at least there was an outlet...

  19. #59
    Teacher Paul F's Avatar
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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dancing Teeth
    They did have a beginners Class. The beginners where asked to go on the Wednesday, at least there was an outlet...
    True. I used to enjoy Wednesdays as well as a Tuesday. However it never felt as busy on a wednesday (one of the reasons i enjoyed it) and the standard of dancing on a tuesday was always perceived as being of a higher standard. Whether this perception was justified is another thread

    Had a beginner class been introduced on a tuesday, I think the number of advanced dancers travelling 60/70/80 miles to get there will have dropped or the beginners would not have turned up.

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    Re: A new H******s?

    Quote Originally Posted by Will
    ..........and Kate & I make a point of dancing with any beginners that do come, ............

    oh my god, I hope that wasn't why you danced with me the other week??????

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