A new H******s?

[David Franklin]

By exclusive I meant the lack of beginners classes. You would never be able to forceably ensure no beginners come in , although that brings with it many humerous images , but the advanced nature (and i would like to use a different word) would be there by implication surely?

I have no problems with beginners at an advanced venue. It's the "5 years' experience in bad habits" dancers that are the problem.

The more general problem is "advanced" is such a subjective term. Most people think it would be great to have a venue for advanced dancers, but they always assume they will be in the "advanced" group. (Then they find they can't do the lessons, so start coming just for the freestyle...)

It's often the worst dancers who are convinced they're advanced - if you think about it, Hipsters probably had more "must avoid" dancers than any of the London Ceroc venues.

[Paul F]

It's only seeing US competition videos on the 'net that makes me want to try it - certainly almost nothing I've seen in two months of classes is particularly inspiring - not considering the time and effort involved in learning a new style of dance. And which current WCS advertising? Not very effective at the moment is it?I'm afraid that there are ways to get things going without much ready cash, but there aren't any ways to get things going without a lot of time and effort. Without the 'time-consuming backing' - it's not going to happen.I don't doubt that it's possibly viable, but I think that finding the venue, teacher and deciding the format is the interesting, easy, 1% of what's needed. I don't accept that just putting the evening on and expecting dancers and their cash will flock to you is going to work. I would *love* to hear ideas for what goes into the other 99%, but I've no doubt that those that know ain't saying and vice versa.

I didnt say the advertising was good, I just said it would be used.
(sorry that sounds snippy. I dont mean it to be )

Finding a venue, sorting out formats, finding the extra 99% etc. ......isnt that whats happening with the WCS classes now?
Utilising a contained room is simply a switch in venue with the 'possibility' of enhancing your customer base.

When it comes to defining that 99% I have to redirect that to business like people. This is certainly not me

[Paul F]

I have no problems with beginners at an advanced venue. It's the "5 years' experience in bad habits" dancers that are the problem.

The more general problem is "advanced" is such a subjective term. Most people think it would be great to have a venue for advanced dancers, but they always assume they will be in the "advanced" group. (Then they find they can't do the lessons, so start coming just for the freestyle...)

It's often the worst dancers who are convinced they're advanced - if you think about it, Hipsters probably had more "must avoid" dancers than any of the London Ceroc venues.

Am i the only one that wants another hipsters-like night back


There is always this issue about advanced but it seemed to bring many many people in week on week.
Im overlooking the fact that other nights such as nosequins helped bring about the end of hipsters but i still say i would travel for a night like the one suggested.
I could be on my own faced with a £500 door fee

[El Salsero Gringo]

(sorry that sounds snippy. I dont mean it to be )

Don't worry about it! - I'm the master of sounding snippy when I don't mean to be.

Finding a venue, sorting out formats, finding the extra 99% etc. ......isnt that whats happening with the WCS classes now?

You've been doing WCS far longer than I. Bearing in mind that there used to be a weekly WCS class at Hipsters on Tuesdays, downstairs, I think - which has ceased, and that Cat's class is the only one in the entirety of London - do you really think any progress has been made? Or is going to be? I wonder if there aren't lots of people on the Forum who have tried it and effectively given up, which if true doesn't really square with the idea that WCS is just waiting to take off.

[Paul F]

Don't worry about it! - I'm the master of sounding snippy when I don't mean to be.You've been doing WCS far longer than I. Bearing in mind that there used to be a weekly WCS class at Hipsters on Tuesdays, downstairs, I think - which has ceased, and that Cat's class is the only one in the entirety of London - do you really think any progress has been made? Or is going to be? I wonder if there aren't lots of people on the Forum who have tried it and effectively given up, which if true doesn't really square with the idea that WCS is just waiting to take off.

there is always a risk but it would be interesting to know about people who have tried and given up. Without some real research i just have to cling to the hope that it IS the next 'sliced bread'

[Rhythm King]

~snip~ and that Cat's class is the only one in the entirety of London ~snip~

Don't forget Surbiton on a Friday night, with the excellent Paul Warden & Sally Tomlyn and indeed Catriona sometimes teaches there too. OK so it's technically Surrey, but it's till Greater London.

There are more WCS classes appearing at weekenders and workshops (eg the newly Ceroc'd Rebel Yell) and there is even a WCS tea dance coming up at Hammersmith on 2 Oct.

Hipsters is sorely missed, but it would have to offer something special in the music and teaching departments if was to re-establish itself. I think JB is entirely correct in what he wrote.

I quite like dancing with beginners, and seeing the penny drop, when things fall into place. It's quite often those who have been coming for 4 or 5 years and think they are good enough not to do the classes who can be the problem, as mentioned by David Franklin.

R-K

[TiggsTours]

So, I think we've established that there are plenty of nights around catering for the more advanced dancer, just not in Paul F's neck of the woods!

[Paul F]

The main reason for bringing this thread up was to explore the possibility of an advanced Mj night. The WCS addition is just something that I would like personally.

If there is no call for an advanced night then fair enough. I would have enjoyed it but I guess I am the only one

[Cruella]

Going slightly off thread. Has anyone experienced Surbiton? I was supposed to be doing a 2 hour drive tonight with the guy i dance WCS with but he has cried off. Don't want to drive all that way if there is a lack of men or dancing. Ideally would like a man to go with but as they are few and far between in this area with WCS experience, and such short notice it's looking highly unlikely that i will go.

[Paul F]

Going slightly off thread. Has anyone experienced Surbiton? I was supposed to be doing a 2 hour drive tonight with the guy i dance WCS with but he has cried off. Don't want to drive all that way if there is a lack of men or dancing. Ideally would like a man to go with but as they are few and far between in this area with WCS experience, and such short notice it's looking highly unlikely that i will go.

Oh no

I have just convinced myself to give WCS a miss for 1 night in favour of the freestyle in Oxford tonight.

Surbiton is good. I believe Cat is teaching there tonight. There was about 40 there last time and that was with a particularly bad driving night. Many people gave u trying to get there so there is a good chance it will be even busier - traffic allowing.

[Cruella]

Oh no

I have just convinced myself to give WCS a miss for 1 night in favour of the freestyle in Oxford tonight.

Surbiton is good. I believe Cat is teaching there tonight. There was about 40 there last time and that was with a particularly bad driving night. Many people gave u trying to get there so there is a good chance it will be even busier - traffic allowing.

Oxford is tomorrow night!! I'll be there too!!

[Paul F]

Oxford is tomorrow night!! I'll be there too!!

there is one tonight too apparently run by Jive+

I must just love driving

[Dancing Teeth]

First and foremost I am not advertising a night as it doesnt exist yet so Im hoping this doesnt get deleted

Im wondering if it would be a good idea for someone (not me) to step up to the plate and organise a replacement for the now-changed hipsters.

As far as I can tell London , and quite frankly anywhere, does not have a night that caters exclusively to the more experienced dancer. I believe there are nights that run advanced classes HOWEVER these classes also target beginners with beginner classes.


What I would love to see is:

* Decent venue - doesnt have to be a palace
* 1 or 2 advanced/speciality classes in one hall.
* West Coast Swing in the second hall - the potential is there for this to really grow and the 2 rooms really brings an added 'x-factor' (sorry)
* 2 hours of freestyle
* and any extra things like free parking etc.

I can only speak from a personal viewpoint but I would happily sit in , over an hour, of surrey traffic to get into London if such a night ran and i am definately not the only one.
Plus, with this forum, the organiser has an immediate mechanism to target the advanced dancers.

I really really want to see such a night created once again but is it viable?

I suppose the main question is who would teach these advanced lessons. Any ideas? There has to be well respected teachers in the area.

Ok, so if it is viable, is there anybody that wants to take up the challenge?
You would have 1 customer......me

Teacher's hat off… here goes….


Be carefully what you wish for my friend.!!!

A mans wealth is not measured by the size of his wallet but by his income flow, for a heavy wallet will always end up entry without income.

New people (beginners in this case) are essential, to keep an equilibrium on things. It’s a new experience, fun and they are great to watch as you’re having a drink.

In my years in MJ, I’ve seen my advanced nights which are usually full to a greater percentage by people so far up there own b****sides, that the night it’s self like it’s regulars will also retract and collapse in on itself, for many reasons like people not wanting to dance with you because they feel they are better than you etc etc, but I think the most important is, NO NEW BLOOD.

[DavidB]

NO NEW BLOOD.

Important consideration - given your Avatar...

[Dancing Teeth]

Important consideration - given your Avatar...

Nice one David....

[Paul F]

Teacher's hat off… here goes….


Be carefully what you wish for my friend.!!!

A mans wealth is not measured by the size of his wallet but by his income flow, for a heavy wallet will always end up entry without income.

New people (beginners in this case) are essential, to keep an equilibrium on things. It’s a new experience, fun and they are great to watch as you’re having a drink.

In my years in MJ, I’ve seen my advanced nights which are usually full to a greater percentage by people so far up there own b****sides, that the night it’s self like it’s regulars will also retract and collapse in on itself, for many reasons like people not wanting to dance with you because they feel they are better than you etc etc, but I think the most important is, NO NEW BLOOD.

WOW I wasnt expecting that

Ok, I have had one of the best ever DJs and one of the best ever teachers on the circuit tell me it wont work.

I hereby declare that this was a bad idea and i am now going to go and sit in the corner of the room facing the wall.



I like the bit about the wallet though DT. Can i use this in casual conversation?

[Dancing Teeth]

WOW I wasnt expecting that

Ok, I have had one of the best ever DJs and one of the best ever teachers on the circuit tell me it wont work.

I hereby declare that this was a bad idea and i am now going to go and sit in the corner of the room facing the wall.



I like the bit about the wallet though DT. Can i use this in casual conversation?

ofcause you can Paul.....

Hey listen, I was'nt having a go. Just trying to explain that a night without new people is doomed. You go there and you see the same old faces week after week after week. how boring is that even if they are good dances. Afterall we all had to start somewhere.

You can have the best teacher and DJ around,!! and it might indeed work for a while, hence the full wallet.... Were will your income come from Paul..??

You can come away from the wall now...

hope you have a nice day Dude.. Vik.

[Paul F]

ofcause you can Paul.....

Hey listen, I was'nt having a go. Just trying to explain that a night without new people is doomed. You go there and you see the same old faces week after week after week. how boring is that even if they are good dances. Afterall we all had to start somewhere.

You can have the best teacher and DJ around,!! and it might indeed work for a while, hence the full wallet.... Were will your income come from Paul..??

You can come away from the wall now...

hope you have a nice day Dude.. Vik.

I had to come away from the wall as my boss threatened to sack me if i didnt get on with some work

No worries. I know you weren't having a go

Im still going to hope one comes about though.

[Tessalicious]

I had to come away from the wall as my boss threatened to sack me if i didnt get on with some work

No worries. I know you weren't having a go

Im still going to hope one comes about though.

Rather than it being a bad idea, I think the mistake you made, Paul, is to be have mentioned this on the public section of the forum.

Obviously you need the invitation-only, advanced-enough-dancers/cool-enough-people section that doesn't really exist, nudge-nudge-wink-wink.

When you're judged good enough to be invited to join that group, as decided by a secret committee whose identities are not know even to each other, then will open up a whole new underworld of nights just like this that only the elite few know about...

Naturally, I'm hypothesising, since I'm not good enough to be part of it, or is that a double bluff? Or was your original post a bluff to demonstrate your lack of elitist knowledge? I guess we'll never know.

[David Franklin]

You can have the best teacher and DJ around,!! and it might indeed work for a while, hence the full wallet.... Were will your income come from Paul..??

The obvious place is dancers 'graduating' from the MJ venues that do teach beginners - there's an obvious analogy with schools and universities. Getting it to work in practice is another matter.

For what it's worth, I think Jango comes closer to my vision of an advanced venue than anywhere else I've seen. It's partly the teaching - I think Will and Kate have done a great job at pitching the level just about perfectly (for me). But I think it's also a function of the relatively small venue and numbers, which mean people get to know each other. It's a very supportive environment for those who do want to learn. I'm not convinced you could do the same thing with a "super venue" catering for over 100 dancers.