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Thread: Promoting Ceroc

  1. #1
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Question Promoting Ceroc

    Things seem to have goine a bit quiet on the dance area so lets see if we can create some challenging comments here

    Like many who have gone before me, I'm faced with the problem of how to promote a new club. The traditional method is to round up a group of willing victims (buskers) to humilaite themsleves in public, usualy in a barren shopping centre with only loud mouthed youths and OAPs as an audience. When we first started Nantwich the busks were pretty succesfull, but the latter ones have had abysmal results.

    Television and radio are too expensive, adverts in local papers seem to have limted impact .... so what do you think is an effective way of pormoting a new (or existing ) club?

  2. #2
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    I promote bands and club nites (occasionally at the moment) as well as having marketing/advertising qualifications, and find the best ways (on the cheap) are:

    - Flyers and posters in appropriate bars/street, etc.,
    - Free listings in local newspapers,
    - Targeting similar ventures, i.e advertising beside/or at other dance classes/nites.

    These are the cheapest and most direct way of reaching your target audience. But, to be honest, you might want to consider spending a little cash, because as the saying goes: you have to speculate to accumulate.
    Hope some of this helps.

  3. #3
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    Promoting a new venue....

    I've just (10th night last night) opened a new venue in Sunderland. I'm working very hard to attract completely new dancers a) so I don't get on the wrong side of a nearby franchisee and b) doing my bit to bring Ceroc to the non dancing masses.

    I never expected Sunderland to be an easy area to open in and it's proving to be so. The main problem seems to be the vast majority of people get into Ceroc by word of mouth, i.e. being introduced by a friend. So we need that core of people in the first place to have them bring their friends along.

    I've advertised on the local radio which was very successful in making the word Ceroc known to local people, 99.99999% of which will never have heard of it before but unfortunately it didn't get people through the door. I was frequently told by people that they had heard the advert, and remembered it, but I didn't get a very good return on the investment.

    I'm now trying newspaper adverts which have been fairly successful for my other venue in Middlesbrough. Recently a £150 advert which advertised the Middlesbrough venue and a busk we ran brought in about 30 new people.

    I'd like to run a busk in Sunderland soon but the problem is where do you get your buskers from when the dancers you do have are very new and are still struggling to link a tracks worth of moves together. The thought of dancing in front of dozens/hundreds of sceptical shoppers will probably frighten them off. I can get a few from the Middlesbrough venue but it's a long journey so not many would be prepared to make it.

    I disagree strongly with Adrian, I wouldn't want another venue (Ceroc or any other organisation) poaching my dancers so I wouldn't promote at a similiar venue. Also how effective is it? Unless the venue you are targetting has a problem why should people (especially experienced dancers) want to leave there to come to a venue with a small number of beginners?

    New venues should target new people and that's not easy, any suggestions on opening up the none dancers minds to what we do gratefully accepted.
    Mike Walker
    Too much is never enough

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    Okie. I'm just really brainstorming here. So bear with me. And I'll give one example of what I'm sort of thinking about, but you could obviously adapt it to different situations.... And I also have no idea if this would work

    Is there a gym (are they called fitness clubs these days?) local to your club? (Reason I say a gym is twofold - the people who go to the gym tend to be the people who are either (a) already pretty fit, or (b) want to get fit).

    Perhaps you could approach the owner of the gym, and see about putting your posters up around his premises. You could offer some discount on admission to your class (for a specified period, say 3 months) to members of the gym.

    In order to get him to put up the posters, you could offer all of his staff free entry to your club - has the additional benefit of having some fit young people there (if any of them take up the free entry). Might also get you free entry to the gym (side effect).

    Just some thoughts.... Now all you people who run clubs can tell me why it wouldn't work

    Steve

    PS. If anyone does this, I'd advise that the posters you put up in the gym mention the cardiovascular benefits of dancing!!

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    Gotta say that in my experience (which is very limited), Busking is the way to go baby!

    U just gotta hit those shopping centres at the right time (ie Saturday Lunchtime) and move heaven and earth to get a team of good Dancers in to do it, even if it costs a bit to do it. Also bribe experienced dancers to come to your night for the first few months with free entry. U need them there!

    Also encourage people to all go to the pub together afterwards. Helps if the teacher leads the way to begin with

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    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    We have a class at the local Leisure Centre, and what worked well for them was a flyer delivered to every house in the area, offering a free (I think, or at least very cheap) initial lesson with a voucher.
    Of course, it depends on the type of dancer you want to recruit. This did well in attracting your total beginner. Fortunately, the organisers had other classes, from which they could persuade more experienced dancers to attend too.

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    {First post in a while!! - snowed under at work & hectic at home.}

    A few ideas, but I'm no Don King...
    - Get some t-shirts with Ceroc ~edit~ {Oops: 'Blitz', not Ceroc...}
    and the venue printed on them, then have a handful of people go to clubs around the place and just dance, poss also have a few spotters that would look out for people that seemed to take an interest in the dancers, then approach them with the info.
    - Have a few 'invite' parties; go to some local businesses and offer them a party for their staff - have a few planted couples on the night and a basic class; you could also try internal message boards for the companies.
    - As well as posting flyers at the usual places, see if you could get them in hospitals, nurseries, supermarkets, halls of residence, council offices, doctor's waiting rooms, golf clubs, bowling clubs...
    - Approach the local student union; the clubs & society's rep should be able to point you in the right direction of some willing club - I think that you would need to pitch it as a social thing that that the clubs could use to bind it's members.
    The Vice Prez of the student's union normally arranges events and stuff for the student's as a whole - if you could convince them to 'hire' you as an event for the students it could also pull in some punters.

    All of the above are more leaned towards time and communication with the right person rather than finances (Of course, the people you speak to should be encouraged to come along to evaluate the product, poss with a '1st night free pass')
    - I think that the facility of organising a 'party' is the one that should be pushed to those who have to organise such things (Promotions Managers in companies, Entertainment Directors in organisations): A company/organisation pays you to use their venue and teach beginners - they get hooked and your normal classes swell.{well, that's the theory}
    Last edited by Gadget; 10th-January-2003 at 02:09 PM.

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    Just had another thought;
    Why not introduce a "head-hunter" scheme? - If an existing member signs up a new member, then they get a 'free night' / 'half price' / 'discount' voucher; the more people they sign up, the more discounts they get. And then the new member has the same incentive to sign other new people up.

    Your existing members should then be enticed to activly promote your night.

  9. #9
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gadget
    Just had another thought;
    Why not introduce a "head-hunter" scheme? - If an existing member signs up a new member, then they get a 'free night' / 'half price' / 'discount' voucher; the more people they sign up, the more discounts they get. And then the new member has the same incentive to sign other new people up.

    Your existing members should then be enticed to activly promote your night.
    Some excellent contributions Mr Gadget, some of which we've used before, somne a newer twist. Thanks.

    The head-hunter scheme is a genral practice one ... but has never worked as well as you would think. Again, we regulrly target council offices (especialy as we use their venues) and Hospitals etc..... grand result last time ... ZILCH! Dunno why, bitter experience has taught me that no matter how logical the approach, you can never predict the outcome.

    Liked Tramps suggestions re targetting Health Clubs ... lsight problemn we had (tried it before) ... whats in it for the Health CLub ... effectively we are poaching their membership ... we're all after the same target audience.....

    Keep the idea soming ... SOMETHING out there must work.

    Now if CEROC HQ actualy did what they've been promising for e years and actualy promote Ceroc nationaly ......

  10. #10
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    Bring a Friend schemes....

    I've run a Bring a Friend scheme at Middlesbrough since we started last January (we're a year old next week!) Bring a friend and you get a free pass when the new person gets to their 5th week (when they get a free entry too) and if the new person is a man you get in free on their first night too!

    That might seem like a lot of give aways but the response is surprisingly low so the cost is not significant. Yet still the majority of people still come by "word of mouth". We have reasonable numbers at Middlesbrough (more always welcome of course) but somebody's losing out somewhere!

    I think targeting gyms/health clubs will cause resentment, yes I know all's fair in Love, War and Business but......

    I ran an offer at the company I used to work for where if anyone from the comapany came they could have free entry for a special "taster" session we were doing. The session was well attended by people from other sources but not one person from my company came. We had over 150 employees, in a good environment, and I personally had good working relationships with everyone, it was well advertised on posters, email shot and our intranet. It was very disappointing.
    Mike Walker
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    I also think that the advertising posters and 'corporate image' of Ceroc is fairly bland - one poster stuck up among several others can be lost in the general 'noise'; you need something to grab your interest and keep it long enough to read what it's about. In my opinion, about 80-90% of all flyers and posters seen on any notice board are fairly bland and don't catch your imagination.

    But there is a trade off; having slick and sexy flyers/posters may discourage rather than encourage people: the image portrayed is too perfect for people to identify with.

    As an aside, do you think that the BBC dancing ad's are contributing to enrolment figures? (And what's with the flailing legs!? Lord of the Dance meets Salsa!)

    Reklaw: I can sympathise - even when trying to organise friends that you socialise with (let alone work colleagues) to try it for one night is almost imposable.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Gadget
    Reklaw: I can sympathise - even when trying to organise friends that you socialise with (let alone work colleagues) to try it for one night is almost imposable.
    Funny thing is everyone I know who would fit into the "potential Cerocer" bracket is very interested, always asking how it's going etc. etc. but give it a try..... no chance.

    I wonder if it's because everyone has full and interesting social lives these days and their lives are just too full to take on anything else? I've been asked to do many other things but I can't find the time (because of my dancing) so I can't go along and join them in their interests.
    Mike Walker
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Reklaw
    ~snip~ I've been asked to do many other things but I can't find the time (because of my dancing) so I can't go along and join them in their interests.
    Maybe that's it; if you won't take an interest in their pastimes, how can you expect them to take an interest in yours ?

    {I'm with you 100% BTW}

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Gadget
    Maybe that's it; if you won't take an interest in their pastimes, how can you expect them to take an interest in yours ?

    {I'm with you 100% BTW}
    It's not that I won't.... I can't often I'd like to... which possibly is the case for people who I'd like to get to come to the dance.
    Mike Walker
    Too much is never enough

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    Hi everyone, I've not been in touch for a while as my husband Alfie keeps hogging the computer. I feel obliged to make a couple of comments on this subject as it is something I have been involved in as a venue manager and also as a not so typical dancer. As a larger than average dancer I tend to look at the whole ceroc image thing through different eyes. I tend to think ceroc on the whole is quite biased towards the more stereotypical dancer types and leave the more ordinary, not so fit individuals who are looking for something other than to sit in a pub with a bunch of 18 year olds alone. I can only speak for myself when I say that I started to dance initially because I saw a busk with a group of people who looked ordinary, of all ages and abilities dancing in my local shopping centre. As I had always wanted to be able to jive and never had the guts to learn I looked on and thought "Look at these people, they are all ages and sizes and creeds, I could do that" the rest is history.

    I have watched demonstrations given by salsa experts and other forms of dance and thought you'd have to be a contortionist to be able to do that and walked away. I think if you target people who are already into dancing in a big way or going to the gym a lot and looking for something just to keep them fit you may get them for a couple of months but then they will look for a new fix once they have the basics.

    The only way to get people to come throught the door is to keep plugging away at every possible media opportunity, I do think that if you are going to busk then don't make it look too professional, keep it basic and have people who can talk the talk spending time talking to individuals about the dancing (prefereably people who are a bit passionate about the dancing).
    I do know from experience that no matter how many people you have at a venue you make sure they have a good time, be friendly and treat everyone equally regardless of whether you like them or not and it will pay off in the end but mainly never treat people badly or it will come back to haunt you eventually.

    Your members are paying for the right to dance in your club and if they don't enjoy themselves then they don't have to come back. Personal touches to a club go a long way to make your regular members feel special and don't cost a lot.

    Enjoy and have fun

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    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
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    Originally posted by nessie2611
    I saw a busk with a group of people who looked ordinary, of all ages and abilities dancing in my local shopping centre. As I had always wanted to be able to jive and never had the guts to learn I looked on and thought "Look at these people, they are all ages and sizes and creeds, I could do that" the rest is history.
    Wow Nessie, you just wrote word for word what I was going to post!

    I completely agree that the best way to get people to try out the classes is to show them a bunch of people having a great time dancing, regardless of whether they are young / old, good looking or not, etc... As long as they are smiling and look like they are having fun, then people will react just like you did: "Yeah, I could do that!"

    When we go busking, we are not there to give people a good show, we are there to motivate them into trying out one of the nights... This is why my philosophy is everyone welcome (yes even beginners)...

    Franck.

  17. #17
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Franck

    When we go busking, we are not there to give people a good show, we are there to motivate them into trying out one of the nights... This is why my philosophy is everyone welcome (yes even beginners)...

    Franck.
    totaly agree ... I remember seeing a busk in Notts where some very good dancers were dancing their hearts out and even doing major airsteps ... imagine the impact that has on Mr and Mrs Jo Public .... impressed but would never think that they could do it ... after making similar mistakes myself I think that busks should be kept to beginner and simple intermediate moves

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    I agree with Nessie too. I have only been to one busk, which was at a "gala day" and by coincidence there was also a set of rock & roll dancers there, wearing colourful co-ordinated outfits (they actually had several, and changed!) and doing great-looking moves. However, I can't believe for a minute that anyone watching thought "I can do that" (with the possible exception of Franck!) In contrast, our demo was much simpler, and we had more of a range of ages/shapes.

    The other thing which occurred to me when thinking about this thread was fitness videos. It strikes me that people buy these for two reasons: because they want to look like the "presenter" (Jane Fonda being the classic example) and think that following the routine will achieve this, or because they think that the "presenter" is someone like themselves (Jade from Big Brother) and that they should therefore be able to do the routine without being an olympic athlete. I am firmly of the view that it is almost impossible to "sell" a dance class using the "looks" technique, except to someone who already thinks they're a good dancer. Since modern jive is specifically targeting people who don't think they can dance, it seems obvious that the "someone like you" technique is more appropriate.

  19. #19
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    Busk participates

    There is another way to look at this.....

    If a majority of the buskers were.... how can I put this without upsetting anyone.... er.... physically and ability-wise less appealing? The audience might be thinking that they wouldn't want to be associated with a crowd like that!

    A range of people types, levels of experience, ages etc on show will give a good show case of Ceroc is like in reality, but you still need to give people something to aspire to.... while keeping it credibly achievable.

    I think the best busk participants are good stylish, moderately experienced dancers, dancing simple effective moves. Airsteps and big drops shouldn't be allowed at a busk.

    A few beginners thrown in to show that new people are welcome and we have new people currently so anyone from the audience starting now wouldn't be alone is good.... but how many beginners would be prepared to dance publicly? It's often hard enough to get them up on the floor on a regular dance night!
    Mike Walker
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  20. #20
    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Busk participates

    Originally posted by Reklaw


    A range of people types, levels of experience, ages etc on show will give a good show case of Ceroc is like in reality, but you still need to give people something to aspire to.... while keeping it credibly achievable.
    Well put. Like most things in Ceroc, its all about a balance. I firmly believe that having beginners (well sub 6 month dancers) at a busk shows people dancing that they belive to be attainable ... i.e. for current non-dancers.

    However, we've atttracted a number of good dancers (non-cerocers) by having some very good display dancers. One of our dancers is a junior Line Dancing world chapmion and I expect she will eventualy make a big impact on the dance circuit ... I don't think she would have been attracted if all she had seen was a bunch of beginners.

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