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Thread: Side lunges

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    Side lunges

    Anyone able to describe what you would look out for when being led into a side lunge type move?

    I don't seem to be able to read the lead, unless it's not being led well? To be fair on the men though, I don't think I've ever successfully followed such a move so it's probably me.

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by JoC
    Anyone able to describe what you would look out for when being led into a side lunge type move?

    I don't seem to be able to read the lead, unless it's not being led well? To be fair on the men though, I don't think I've ever successfully followed such a move so it's probably me.
    Hmmm, maybe a slight lift to "de-weight" the foot that's travelling and then a larger than normal lead for the sideways movement on the same side / in the same direction.

    SpinDr.

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    Hmmm, maybe a slight lift to "de-weight" the foot that's travelling and then a larger than normal lead for the sideways movement on the same side / in the same direction.
    Also, if the man puts in a pause before the lunge and gives you "that look", I find it helps me.

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou
    Also, if the man puts in a pause before the lunge and gives you "that look", I find it helps me.
    I always seem to be facing the other way... maybe I can ask all my partners to shout 'lunge!' just before the move until I get the hang of it.

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by JoC
    I always seem to be facing the other way... maybe I can ask all my partners to shout 'lunge!' just before the move until I get the hang of it.
    Yup - that should work!

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    Re: Side lunges

    I'm going to be looking with great anxiety now for 'that look' from now on though

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    Re: Side lunges

    I've wondered about this myself. I can see how to lead movement to the side, but I'm not clear how to distinguish between stepping, and lunging. The only thing I can think of is if the guy puts his stationary foot by the side of the girl's stationary foot, so she has to keep it in place.

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    Re: Side lunges

    Is there some kind of downwards pull or push maybe after a little lift? And maybe an extra firm lead along the lines of 'whoosh and we're going all the way over here now!'. I'll maybe just have to find me someone who can clearly lead this and ask if they'll 'give' me a go.

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    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    I've wondered about this myself. I can see how to lead movement to the side, but I'm not clear how to distinguish between stepping, and lunging. The only thing I can think of is if the guy puts his stationary foot by the side of the girl's stationary foot, so she has to keep it in place.
    I'm trying to work out if JoC meant a side lean where the man is on his partner's side and supporting her or a parallel side step with the follower in front (taking a larger step and dragging tailing foot).

    If the former, for the side lean, I would agree that the man would place his inside foot against his partners, and indeed make contact all the way to the hips before leading the lean. He must also make sure that his partner's is balanced on her near foot. The proximity / contact is really important as it means the follower is moving with the lead, rather than falling on him / her.
    The main problems in the above are that most men don't make the effort to make proper contact before the lean, and when they do, most women anticipate a lean and start before the man is ready.

    The second type (large side step and slide) is more difficult to lead and will rely on visual and musical clues to happen (as well as normal leads). Apart from the lunge where you physically 'kick' your partner's leg sideways to make her lunge with you (kick is not the right word here there is no pain / violence involved). For that one, you would first make sure you know on which foot your partner is balanced and then nudge her free leg from the inside, effectively leading here sideways before dragging her other foot with your trailing one.
    If you are not in a close position, then you can achieve similar effects (even without contact) by providing visual clues, a larger than normal arm sweep for example, or 'that look' for example. The best clue is usually a suitable break in the track you're dancing to, if you're both reading the music similarly, then the lunge will feel right and might even happen all by itself.

    Overall, I agree with SpinDr, being aware of your partner's weight distribution, so she can lunge on the free foot is the main factor.
    Franck.

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck
    Apart from the lunge where you physically 'kick' your partner's leg sideways to make her lunge with you (kick is not the right word here there is no pain / violence involved). For that one, you would first make sure you know on which foot your partner is balanced and then nudge her free leg from the inside, effectively leading here sideways before dragging her other foot with your trailing one.
    I'd forgotten about that move, its fabulous! One for the 'Moves from heaven' thread IMO!

    I don't know anyone down south who does it though!
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    Registered User Mary's Avatar
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    Re: Side lunges

    Y'know when you see good dressage riding (riding horses and all that), have you noticed that the horse always seems to know exactly which way to go, which side steps to make, where to place his hooves, when to change the leading leg etc. and there are no perceptable signs at all from the rider - now THAT'S connection.

    I think that leading these kind of lunges and any footwork patterns, weight shift etc., and any other fancy stuff (I like fancy stuff btw) is much the same. The lady should be able to feel it, but it should be imperceptible to an onlooker, so it looks like 'how did she know to do that'? (AND it's not choreographed!).

    Now there are some people out there who are far better qualified that I who can explain how to do this, so I won't presume to even try.

    M

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck
    The second type (large side step and slide) is more difficult to lead and will rely on visual and musical clues to happen (as well as normal leads). Apart from the lunge where you physically 'kick' your partner's leg sideways to make her lunge with you (kick is not the right word here there is no pain / violence involved). For that one, you would first make sure you know on which foot your partner is balanced and then nudge her free leg from the inside, effectively leading here sideways before dragging her other foot with your trailing one.
    This sounds very much like the one I was really struggling with on Monday - since it was one where the lead was behind the follower, there were no real visual clues, so this has come as a real relief! - thanks again to ESG for trying to get it through my thick head through an entire track failure was my fault not yours A Really Good Dancer told me on Monday that the sideways lunges (especially that particular move where the lead was behind the follow) were hard to lead and that he would classify more as "moves that had to be learned - if this is the case then I don't mind so much that I'm a bit stoopid with them if they are led in freestyle.

    Overall, I agree with SpinDr, being aware of your partner's weight distribution, so she can lunge on the free foot is the main factor.
    - to start with I couldn't even lunge on the correct foot and ended up leaning on my partner - Very Bad.

    Forward lunges are much easier, I was starting to get the hang of those on Wednesday. "Extrapolating" from these, I reckon that Jo has the right of it with the "lift and pull down" /Spindr's larger than normal lead. I would be looking for a ballroom handhold as well, would this be correct/reasonable?

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck
    I'm trying to work out if JoC meant a side lean where the man is on his partner's side and supporting her or a parallel side step with the follower in front (taking a larger step and dragging tailing foot).
    Now I've no idea myself now Looking back that was a really rubbish description I gave. What I think I don't mean is a lean, and what think I do mean is a move where instead of taking a step to say my right, I'm supposed to make a slightly bigger than normal step to the right with lunging action, so bending right leg quite a lot. The weight transfer onto that leg is brief though (sort of half a step time) and you immediately transfer back onto the left (no slide), then go do something else to finish the move (bit of a JB/FC move it might be fair to say?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck
    the lunge where you physically 'kick' your partner's leg sideways to make her lunge with you
    You always catch me unawares with that one...I'll be ready next time hopefully!

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by JoC
    Now I've no idea myself now Looking back that was a really rubbish description I gave. What I think I don't mean is a lean, and what think I do mean is a move where instead of taking a step to say my right, I'm supposed to make a slightly bigger than normal step to the right with lunging action, so bending right leg quite a lot. The weight transfer onto that leg is brief though (sort of half a step time) and you immediately transfer back onto the left (no slide), then go do something else to finish the move (bit of a JB/FC move it might be fair to say?).
    It does sound tango-y, but to my extreme frustration I can't Google a picture to check that I'm talking about the same thing as everyone else is? The only ones I could find showed all the ladies wearing gorgeous long dresses so you can't fully see the 'position'. Grrr.

    From what you're saying Jo, we are talking about similar moves (except I learned it with man behind rather than facing). If so, is it the one where you're lunging with a straight vertical line through right hip and knee (with knee bent), the the non-weight bearing leg is extended and your right arm is arched over your head (should R shoulder also be on the same vertical line as hip and knee?). If this is the one, then it does need a pretty strong lead (well, I do )

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by JoC
    Now I've no idea myself now Looking back that was a really rubbish description I gave. What I think I don't mean is a lean, and what think I do mean is a move where instead of taking a step to say my right, I'm supposed to make a slightly bigger than normal step to the right with lunging action, so bending right leg quite a lot. The weight transfer onto that leg is brief though (sort of half a step time) and you immediately transfer back onto the left (no slide), then go do something else to finish the move (bit of a JB/FC move it might be fair to say?).
    Sounds like you want to almost bounce on to and then back off of a leg quickly?? If so, the guys going to have to lead really well to basically stop you committing your weight onto the first leg -- as soon as you do that I reckon that you'd end up in what I would have called a "lunge" and you'd naturally be slow to swap back. I could sort of visualise trying to keep your body (and centre of mass) higher than normal, whilst maybe doing a small lunge-like step -- but maybe a bit lower, so that you have enough "spring" in that leg to help the movement to the other side. Hmmmm, tricky.

    SpinDr.

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by Mary
    Y'know when you see good dressage riding (riding horses and all that), have you noticed that the horse always seems to know exactly which way to go, which side steps to make, where to place his hooves, when to change the leading leg etc. and there are no perceptable signs at all from the rider - now THAT'S connection.
    Hmm, mine used to go sideways beautifully when going past an interesting garden ornament or unusual gate etc. Unfortunately as that meant sideways into the middle of a road it was not something I encouraged! I know what you mean though, even telling them to change leading leg in canter etc - wouldn't be at all evident how you were doing it when watching.

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by NewKid
    It does sound tango-y, but to my extreme frustration I can't Google a picture to check that I'm talking about the same thing as everyone else is? The only ones I could find showed all the ladies wearing gorgeous long dresses so you can't fully see the 'position'. Grrr.

    From what you're saying Jo, we are talking about similar moves (except I learned it with man behind rather than facing). If so, is it the one where you're lunging with a straight vertical line through right hip and knee (with knee bent), the the non-weight bearing leg is extended and your right arm is arched over your head (should R shoulder also be on the same vertical line as hip and knee?). If this is the one, then it does need a pretty strong lead (well, I do )
    Ooooeermmm, no, don't think so, but I think I know the one you mean and that's a gorgeous move. My arms would be low, I think, and I've no idea what the man's doing because he is indeed behind me... but not directly, he's off to the left somewhere while I'm off to the right...I think we'd be effectively pulling in opposite directions at the extent of the move...which provides the momentum for the quick weight transfer back to the left leg...

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    Registered User Mary's Avatar
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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by NewKid
    It does sound tango-y, but to my extreme frustration I can't Google a picture to check that I'm talking about the same thing as everyone else is? The only ones I could find showed all the ladies wearing gorgeous long dresses so you can't fully see the 'position'. Grrr.

    From what you're saying Jo, we are talking about similar moves (except I learned it with man behind rather than facing). If so, is it the one where you're lunging with a straight vertical line through right hip and knee (with knee bent), the the non-weight bearing leg is extended and your right arm is arched over your head (should R shoulder also be on the same vertical line as hip and knee?). If this is the one, then it does need a pretty strong lead (well, I do )
    I think you were being taught something like this move. Greg and I used to get into it from a cleaver-y type thing, with a fast spin/unwrap the lady into an arms out position, then adopt the 'Garbo' pose.

    Is that any use?

    M
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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by spindr
    Sounds like you want to almost bounce on to and then back off of a leg quickly?? If so, the guys going to have to lead really well to basically stop you committing your weight onto the first leg -- as soon as you do that I reckon that you'd end up in what I would have called a "lunge" and you'd naturally be slow to swap back. I could sort of visualise trying to keep your body (and centre of mass) higher than normal, whilst maybe doing a small lunge-like step -- but maybe a bit lower, so that you have enough "spring" in that leg to help the movement to the other side. Hmmmm, tricky.

    SpinDr.
    I can see that lunges might need to be 'slower' led to give time for the weight transfer. Either that, or the follower needs to be faster to respond (I think this is partly why I was having difficulties on Mon, too slow )

    - for the faster move that it seems is ACTUALLY being described (apologies for thread hijack due to pure misunderstanding) the follow's weight would have to be *somewhere*.

    I give in and will have to annoy someone better than me in person to demonstrate (I'm just not getting this one at all... )

    EDIT: due to cross-posting - Mary, that is EXACTLY the position I was describing, although the 'getting there' was different - from a pretzel-y type thing in my case. Thanks. But sounds like it's not the one that Jo's talking about so I'll shut up now...

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    Re: Side lunges

    Quote Originally Posted by NewKid
    so I'll shut up now...
    Me too I think, this is why there aren't many technical posts...it's just too hard to describe, especially if you're not up on your terminology, so I'll just slink off now...

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