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Thread: How many drops?

  1. #41
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by El Salsero Gringo
    Who and how would you enforce this?
    Obviously, this is a job for the CerocStabulary - probably the Special (Drop) Branch.

  2. #42
    TiggsTours
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    Re: How many drops?

    [QUOTE=KatieRFor all the new dancers out there reading the forum, i think i have made mention of this on a different thread that, when you are dancing with someone new, always stipulate whether you want drops in the dance and make sure he hears you. If he doesn't listen, dont be afraid to stop the dance. If you feel in any way unsafe. Stop.[/QUOTE]

    Although I agree with this, in principle, I actually think it should be the other way round.

    As a female dancer, I would get fed up having to say to someone "I don't do drops" before every single dance, and I've also had the comment made to me by guys who don't like doing drops themselves that they find this very strange when said to them, and stops them really enjoying the dance, and putting their everything into it, it takes the fun and spontaneity out of things right from the start.

    I'd say that as the person leading, and therefore the one with the control over whether you put drops into a dance, it should be up to the guys who want to do drops to ask the girl if she's OK with that.

    Personally, I'm perfectly capable of doing drops, I just don't enjoy them, I think they take away from a dance, and make the dance all about the moves that are put in, rather than the style, fun, musicality and interaction between the partners, which for me is what dancing is really all about.

  3. #43
    Donna
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by TiggsTours
    As a female dancer, I would get fed up having to say to someone "I don't do drops" before every single dance, and I've also had the comment made to me by guys who don't like doing drops themselves that they find this very strange when said to them, and stops them really enjoying the dance, and putting their everything into it, it takes the fun and spontaneity out of things right from the start.
    Why should a woman always have to tell a man that she doesn't do drops??? The man is leading, so if he intending on doing any drops with her anyway, should always do so before he starts. Someone could have a bad back and is limited to doing so much. I'm sure people have been hurt before through them not thinking first.

  4. #44
    TiggsTours
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    Why should a woman always have to tell a man that she doesn't do drops??? The man is leading, so if he intending on doing any drops with her anyway, should always do so before he starts. Someone could have a bad back and is limited to doing so much. I'm sure people have been hurt before through them not thinking first.

    You seem to have mis-read my email, I was saying exactly that, I was replying to Katie R's email saying that the lady should tell the man.

  5. #45
    Donna
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by TiggsTours
    You seem to have mis-read my email, I was saying exactly that, I was replying to Katie R's email saying that the lady should tell the man.
    Ah I scrolled down to fast then got disturbed by a phonecall, therefor mis-read it. I quickly scanned through that one then replied. Soz.

  6. #46

    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    Why should a woman always have to tell a man that she doesn't do drops??? The man is leading, so if he intending on doing any drops with her anyway, should always do so before he starts. Someone could have a bad back and is limited to doing so much. I'm sure people have been hurt before through them not thinking first.
    Of course the man should ask! But often they don't. SO is it worthwhile not saying anything because he didn't ask or protecting your own health and safety and speaking up if he doesn't bother? That is even more important if you have an injury. Women look at me bizarrely (maybe they do that all thetime?) when I ask them every time if they do drops or have an injury or would prefer I did not do certain types of moves. I do it all the time with people I don't know and/or have not danced with before. But if it is someone whose ability I know, I don't. If they had an injury I was unaware of I would hope they would politely tell me as we made our way onto the floor. Men cannot multi-task so why should you assume we have the powers of telepathy also!

  7. #47
    TiggsTours
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzle
    Of course the man should ask! But often they don't. SO is it worthwhile not saying anything because he didn't ask or protecting your own health and safety and speaking up if he doesn't bother? That is even more important if you have an injury. Women look at me bizarrely (maybe they do that all thetime?) when I ask them every time if they do drops or have an injury or would prefer I did not do certain types of moves. I do it all the time with people I don't know and/or have not danced with before. But if it is someone whose ability I know, I don't. If they had an injury I was unaware of I would hope they would politely tell me as we made our way onto the floor. Men cannot multi-task so why should you assume we have the powers of telepathy also!

    What I was trying to say was, if a guy likes doing drops, he should ask the girl if that's OK with her, if he doesn't know her. As a girl, if you have an injury (this goes for the guy too) you should always tell your partner before you start dancing with them, whether you know them or not, you have a responsibility to guard your own health. If I hadn't told a guy I don't do drops and he did one, I'd tell him at that point that I'd rather he didn't. I do think that as a guy, if you're not prepared to ask first, you should at least test the water with a little drop first, rather than throwing your partner full pelt into a death roll! I'm not suggesting you do (I have no idea who you are) but some guys do.

  8. #48
    Donna
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzle
    Of course the man should ask! But often they don't. SO is it worthwhile not saying anything because he didn't ask or protecting your own health and safety and speaking up if he doesn't bother?
    Well hello Dazzle,

    Yes I agree with you there that if the lady does have some sort of problem then she should say so..but even then some women might just decide to take a risk and might not say anything at all. The man should always ask first anyway, and then if she was to admit she has a slight problem but will give it a whirl anyway (know this sounds stupid, but I know of a few women who have done this) then he might not want to be made responsible for hurting her so will refuse to do any drops just to be on the safe side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazzle
    Women look at me bizarrely (maybe they do that all thetime?)
    Oh they do!! They told me it's those funny faces you pull!!!

  9. #49

    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donna
    Oh they do!! They told me it's those funny faces you pull!!!
    It's the only one I have!

  10. #50
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by TiggsTours
    I've also had the comment made to me by guys who don't like doing drops themselves that they find this very strange when said to them, and stops them really enjoying the dance, and putting their everything into it, it takes the fun and spontaneity out of things right from the start.
    For the little it's worth, it doesn't bother me. In fact, it's kinda relaxing, because it means I can rely on my partner not to throw herself at the floor at random intervals throughout the dance.

  11. #51
    Registered User Zuhal's Avatar
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinHarper
    For the little it's worth, it doesn't bother me. In fact, it's kinda relaxing, because it means I can rely on my partner not to throw herself at the floor at random intervals throughout the dance.


    Zuhal

  12. #52
    Registered User KatieR's Avatar
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by TiggsTours

    I'd say that as the person leading, and therefore the one with the control over whether you put drops into a dance, it should be up to the guys who want to do drops to ask the girl if she's OK with that.
    .
    In theory, yes this is probably what should happen. But how many of us ladies have been thrown into drops by guys who think they know everything already. I also would like to have some control over my own safety.

  13. #53
    Donna
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by KatieR
    In theory, yes this is probably what should happen. But how many of us ladies have been thrown into drops by guys who think they know everything already. I also would like to have some control over my own safety.
    I remember once this Australian guy who was travelling around the UK to dance came to Wrexham once and you know some of these Australian Cerocers just get hyperactive when it comes to doing the dangerous moves. He did a drop....and believe me it was a proper drop....right on my back!!! I was winded terribly!!!! (Very much like Jim Carrey was when he was rushing for that plane in LIAR LIAR and ran fell straight out of the gateway flat on his back!!!)

  14. #54

    Re: How many drops?

    The number of drops per track should depend upon many things IMHO
    the type of track (blues and swing room music is very suitable to drops etc)
    the available space on the dance floor
    the dancing level of you & your partner (if you dont know then play safe)
    the condition of the dance floor etc. etc.

    The venue organiser could and should influence the dancers in a very crowded venue - it does not take much for the DJ to announce something like "very crowded tonight please be carefull with the drops & seducers"

    Workshops - in an ideal world yes dancers should attend them, but all to often they ignore the safety tips and just want to rush into the move.
    Teaching them in regular classes is a double edged sword for the same reasons

    I have been teaching these moves since 1999, I have three instructional DVD's full of drops (sorry but could not resist the plug)
    I have stood on stage and really nagged the dancers to focus on the safety side - but never sure if it gets thru to them

    To cover a few pointers raised
    Yes I do offer a free class in dips & drops, but these moves are not always suited to regular class nights
    No I have not taught for Ceroc

    Although these moves can be dangerous, I suspect more injuries are caused by heavy handed guys trying to unscrew the ladies shoulder with their bad leads than leading Dips drops & seducers
    peter

  15. #55
    Registered User Zebra Woman's Avatar
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    The number of drops per track should depend upon many things IMHO
    the type of track (blues and swing room music is very suitable to drops etc)
    the available space on the dance floor
    the dancing level of you & your partner (if you dont know then play safe)
    the condition of the dance floor etc. etc.

    The venue organiser could and should influence the dancers in a very crowded venue - it does not take much for the DJ to announce something like "very crowded tonight please be carefull with the drops & seducers"

    Workshops - in an ideal world yes dancers should attend them, but all to often they ignore the safety tips and just want to rush into the move.
    Teaching them in regular classes is a double edged sword for the same reasons

    I have been teaching these moves since 1999, I have three instructional DVD's full of drops (sorry but could not resist the plug)
    I have stood on stage and really nagged the dancers to focus on the safety side - but never sure if it gets thru to them

    To cover a few pointers raised
    Yes I do offer a free class in dips & drops, but these moves are not always suited to regular class nights
    No I have not taught for Ceroc

    Although these moves can be dangerous, I suspect more injuries are caused by heavy handed guys trying to unscrew the ladies shoulder with their bad leads than leading Dips drops & seducers
    peter

    My worst injuries are from bad general leading, especially pretzels and backhanders.

    That said, I have wrenched my back being pushed back into a layback (hand on my right shoulder). Another time I was laid into a dip in a half-Nelson - my right wrist which got crushed between the guy's thigh and my lower back.....Ouch!

    All in all I'm happy to live with the risks (so long as there is plenty of floor space and the music is conducive) as the rewards are just .

    My favourite at the moment is a dip where Captain Fantastic lowers me all the way to the floor with just a hand behind my neck - no hands at all. My hands are by my sides.

  16. #56
    Donna
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    the available space on the dance floor
    I agree. Anyone who might consider trying drops on a crowded dance floor has no sense at all!! I had that done before and nearly got kicked in the face by someone wearing three inch heels. Not good!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    The venue organiser could and should influence the dancers in a very crowded venue - it does not take much for the DJ to announce something like "very crowded tonight please be carefull with the drops & seducers"
    Yeah but some just don't bother to say anything do they? It doesn't take much effort to do so.





    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    Although these moves can be dangerous, I suspect more injuries are caused by heavy handed guys trying to unscrew the ladies shoulder with their bad leads than leading Dips drops & seducers
    peter

  17. #57
    The Oracle
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB
    Maybe 4 or 5.

    Per year.
    I have now done my normal quota of 4 drops in a year - one with Franck, two with Lily, and one with KatieR last night. (Happy Birthday Katie!)

    The final drop will be save for a special occasion, unless I can get Clayton drunk enough on Saturday.

    David

  18. #58
    Registered User Purple Sparkler's Avatar
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lounge Lizard
    The venue organiser could and should influence the dancers in a very crowded venue - it does not take much for the DJ to announce something like "very crowded tonight please be carefull with the drops & seducers"
    Not just the drops and seducers. I've seen particularly irresponsible couples doing aerials mid-freestyle at places like Fulham and Hammersmith.

    And I myself have been the victim of an over-zealous partner who put me in a lift which he was too strong for me to avoid being in, and my foot whacked the demo for the evening round the head.

    Not to mention the guy who tried to put me into a Jumping Jack inside the HMS President- I was very glad I managed to resist that one (though heaven only knows how I had the strength with which I had to push down into the floor to do it).

    For me, the drops and seducers are best as a light sprinkling through a track with some breaks- too many and they get old, but throw in one or two and it makes the dance lovely.

  19. #59
    Donna
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB
    I have now done my normal quota of 4 drops in a year - one with Franck, two with Lily, and one with KatieR last night. (Happy Birthday Katie!)

    The final drop will be save for a special occasion, unless I can get Clayton drunk enough on Saturday.

    David
    you dropped Franck?? I dunno but I love watching two men dance together. Sorry, but I think it's blo ody hilarious!!!

  20. #60
    Glitter Queen
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    Re: How many drops?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidB
    I'm unleadable. Ask Franck
    I would like to issue a full retraction of my 'Chicken!' comment earlier in this thread.
    Last night I was allowed to lead DavidB for the last track of the evening - and, far from being 'unleadable', it was a very pleasant dance.
    Thank you David .

    S. x

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